Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

[jive turkey]

Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

[jive turkey]

44 minutes ago, BostonFNP said:

Here’s the thing: 

Vaccinating those that are covid-convalescent is of a lower priority than the rest of the unvaccinated population. But there isn’t a vaccine shortage, and while the M&M evidence isn’t readily available, there is not a single major medical body recommendation that doesn’t recommend vaccination. 

Professionally, I really don’t have major concerns with those that are “PCR+” choosing not to get vaccinated, but I do have a problem with most of their rationale, and you are embodying that here: you have your mind made up and are looking for reasons to support that decision. This is the antithesis of the scientific process and I think a lot of the posters here pick up on that, and have a visceral reaction to it. This is what bred the anti-vax movement originally. 
 

I don’t fully disagree with your position, but I think if you are honest with yourself and your approach, you’ll see the difference. 

The part in bold,  you're DEAD WRONG.  This is why I recommend people not presume what others are thinking or feeling.  

I started this thread interested in gathering informationfrom from peers, receptive to information supporting all perspectives. It's precisely why I asked everyone share legitimate sources of information.  One of the two articles I shared in the first post was that of the CDC speaking in favor of even the PCR+ taking the vaccine.  If I "had my mind made up and was looking for reasons to support a decision" I certainly wouldn't share information contrary to my concerns. 

 Unfortunately throughout the course of debating the issue I was met with fights, posters focusing on personal attacks or incessantly claiming any point I made was invalid. 

I actually expected to have rational, balanced discussions with other nurses who would at least respect a differing opinion and set of facts while supporting their own point of view. 

You said you have a problem with the rationale of PCR+ people not wanting to vaccinate.  

 So if someone who was PCR positive told you that they had covid already, didn't have severe severe symptoms or get hospitalized, wasn't high risk,  talked to their doctor to be informed,  And decided that the vaccine was not for them what problem would you have with that? What's irrational about it?

 

[jive turkey]

22 minutes ago, hello_nurse555 said:

1. I'm repulsed by the bullying I see over it, and that pretty much sealed my decision not to get it. If that offends you, maybe work on your triggers, because the bullying and name calling helps no one. You aren't changing any minds, just helping people dig their heels in.

 

2.Because mutating is a concern......he was concerned at the time that all the vaccine would do would be to create a false sense of security with an initial plateau, and then it would mutate, as viruses are better at doing than bacteria, as coronaviruses are especially good at doing.

 

3.Perhaps the vaccines are causing the variants, and it is not the unvaccinated causing the problem. It is worth considering. All perspectives should be worth considering 

4. I do believe sociopaths have their own agenda, and I do believe sociopaths have a lot of power in this world, and I do believe if you research you can see their views on population control.

5.I don't care if distrust makes me sound like a wingnut. 

6.For those who avoided hospitalization this time, I wonder if they will be so lucky again in the long term.

7.Those who say this is the way to the end of the pandemic can't say that because we have never been in a situation like this, so no one knows. 

8. Everyone thought certain surgical procedures and medications were safe, and now we see midnight commercials offering compensation.

9.I believe the psychology driving all this is fear, 

10Because if people are naturally immune to it, we need to know who those people are .

1. THANK YOU.   I've been telling people in this forum that I know so many people who went from being on the fence about the vaccine to outright refusing it because of the bullying and disrespect.  There's proof right there

2. Right! Just like when the CDC  Said it was OK for the vaccinated to take off their masks. Oops! 

3.  Even though we don't know if that's for sure or not it's definitely worth considering and being receptive to more information. how horrible would it be if that was the case but we're so busy pushing the vaccine it's making it worse? Hopefully that's not the case!

4. THANK YOU.  Why would a billionaire want to take a 6 figure  job? That's a hint.   I often tell people that the wealthy and people in power treat its citizens like a farmer does its livestock. They'll do enough to take care of you to ensure you can continue serving their interests

5. Hi 5!

6. Very true.  We should all be wary and aware, vaccinated or not

7.  Amen!

8. I laughed out loud in that.   I've been telling people for months that you have to be careful with new drugs for that exact reason because years later you see one of those late night attorney commercials with the guy with the raspy voice saying "you may be entitled to a large cash settlement"

9.  Black versus white, Republican versus Democrat, pro vax versus anti-vax. Always divided and hating each other over something

10. Truth

 It was refreshing to finally have somebody get in this with a voice of reason and not one sided.!

[FutureNP90]

On 8/19/2021 at 1:23 PM, FutureNP90 said:

As I read this, I get the impression that this forum was created to find "like minds" to rally together and try to make "valid" (by valid I mean opinion based, unsubstantiated and non evidence based) points regarding not vaccinating during a pandemic. It's irresponsible, please stop. If you have the education of a nurse, and the privilege to take care of people at their worst times, you are held at a higher standard; don't be flippant with the position and pedestal you stand on. 

 

The ANA and states Board of Nursing needs to start holding these nurses responsible for the misinformation and disinformation being out there.

 

**I agree that if there is a medical condition that does not allow someone to be vaccinated, that is a different circumstance. But that is not the conversation being had here**

Just going to repost this here again, for OP, because it seems like (from what I read)  you like to agree with those who prefer not to not vaccinate. 

[jive turkey]

7 minutes ago, FutureNP90 said:

Just going to repost this here again, for OP, because it seems like (from what I read)  you like to agree with those who prefer not to not vaccinate. 

 

 

I like  posts with a balanced view, from people willing to see both sides of the coin, and communicate respectfully.  

There's been posts from people who got the vaccine but weren't rigid about everyone else doing it.  I like that.  

I'm not against the vaccine

I don't favor people who don't want to take it

I champion people being open minded and recognizing people have different perspectives and sources of information to make decisions from

What pisses me off is nurses being hostile towards the hesitant.  We already had an issue with people not trusting medical professionals. Then we have nurses, the most trusted profession,  making people feel like **** over this vaccine exacerbating the problem. 

You feel me?

[FutureNP90]

1 minute ago, jive turkey said:

 

 

I like  posts with a balanced view, from people willing to see both sides of the coin, and communicate respectfully.  

There's been posts from people who got the vaccine but weren't rigid about everyone else doing it.  I like that.  

I'm not against the vaccine

I don't favor people who don't want to take it

I champion people being open minded and recognizing people have different perspectives and sources of information to make decisions from

What pisses me off is nurses being hostile towards the hesitant.  We already had an issue with people not trusting medical professionals. Then we have nurses, the most trusted profession,  making people feel like **** over this vaccine exacerbating the problem. 

You feel me?

Yeah, and I hope you didn't find me hostile, but I feel the hostility or passion (if we wanted to call it that) comes from providing evidence based and substantiated information, and still being ignored because personal "beliefs" are standing in the way of making educated decisions. 

[jive turkey]

5 minutes ago, FutureNP90 said:

Yeah, and I hope you didn't find me hostile, but I feel the hostility or passion (if we wanted to call it that) comes from providing evidence based and substantiated information, and still being ignored because personal "beliefs" are standing in the way of making educated decisions. 

I've seen that a lot here and had to put a few on ignore.  All they wanted to do was say "that's not valid, that's not valid, you're wrong, you're wrong" 

  I think some people may have misunderstood that since I don't come out and directly say who should get the vaccine that I must not support it.

 When I speak publicly in the capacity of a nurse the vast majority of what I tell people to do is based on their provider's orders always. Like you for example:

 If I had a patient that in their chart said Future NP was their provider and Future NPsaid they need to take the vaccine even though they are PCR positive.....Your orders (and what they'll consent to) are going to be the basis of what I tell them they should do regardless what I think

 This is why in this forum I always say people need to talk to their provider and decide what's appropriate for them because the provider is qualified to say what they should or should not do. What I want people to understand is if someone made the case to me that they had the virus already, talked to their doctor and didn't want to take it I could see where they're coming from

[BostonFNP, APRN]

9 hours ago, jive turkey said:

The part in bold,  you're DEAD WRONG.

The title of this thread is "Valid Reasons Not to Get Vaccinated".

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

12 hours ago, jive turkey said:

1. That's on you.  I'm tired of posting the same link multiple times because someone didn't want to go back n find it.  You can always Google the CDC study, the Cleveland Clinic study, and the University of Missouri study regarding COVID reinfection

2. That's speculation. Let's be real,  if they can report the number of unvaccinated people hospitalized they can just as easily tell us if those same unvaccinated people ever had COVID before

3. You can see the aforementioned studies to answer that. 

4. Vaccinated or PCR+ it can still be spread.  There is a degree of ambiguity in terms of how much less the vaccinated people can spread.  

5. "Your honor my momma died from COVID because somebody named Jive Turkey on the internet said he's not on a crusade to tell people to take the vaccine or not, said he feels people should talk to the doctor to see if the vaccine is appropriate for them,  but cited some studies were reinfected people were rarely getting COVID, so she didn't get vaccinated and it's Jive Turkeys fault"

6. I can agree there are people claiming ridiculous things like microchips in the vaccines.  They're wrong for that. Not everyone who is hesitant is an "anti vaxxer". That term is becoming a new form of hate speech

Number 4.  Just because we can't protect people 100%, are you saying that we shouldn't protect them 97% from re-infection?  There are some statistics out re: the number of vaccinated people who had to get admitted to the hospital.  I'm not going to do your research for you. except for this:  According to Mark Thiessen of the American Enterprise Institute (he is a Trumper) , the death rate for previously vaccinated persons is .0005%.  So what point are you trying to make - I forgot!  Is .0005% acceptable to your argument or is it unacceptable.  How does a death rate that low not support full-vaccination rates?

 

 

 

[BostonFNP, APRN]

9 hours ago, jive turkey said:

Unfortunately throughout the course of debating the issue I was met with fights, posters focusing on personal attacks or incessantly claiming any point I made was invalid. 

I actually expected to have rational, balanced discussions with other nurses who would at least respect a differing opinion and set of facts while supporting their own point of view. 

You say you are looking for rational discourse and legitimate sources of information, but you have pushed back on everyone that hasn't given you the answer you were looking for. You feel attacked for your position and by the nature of that prove that you have a position you are defending. You mention debating a differing opinion so it is clear you have one. And it is clear by your posting history that you had/have already decided not to have the vaccine. Is this not true?

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

Take "Not FDA approved" off the list of "valid" reasons not to get vaccinated.

And cue the "The FDA is run by an elitist pedophilia cabal" nonsense in 3, 2, 1...

[BostonFNP, APRN]

35 minutes ago, Horseshoe said:

Take "Not FDA approved" off the list of "valid" reasons not to get vaccinated.

And cue the "The FDA is run by an elitist pedophilia cabal" nonsense in 3, 2, 1...

It goign to be interesting to see the same people that said they won't get it because it's not approved transition into they won't get it because they don't trust the government. If they don't trust the government then why were they waiting for FDA approval in the first place?

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, BostonFNP said:

It goign to be interesting to see the same people that said they won't get it because it's not approved transition into they won't get it because they don't trust the government. If they don't trust the government then why were they waiting for FDA approval in the first place?

They weren't. It was just their lie of the day.