Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

FutureNP90 · Aug 22, 2021

5 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

1st of all it's not fair to assume that just because somebody is a patient they're not smart enough to do the same thing. Secondly I already said that I agreed it was a bad idea for her to make that comment because it RISKS them believing it and making a choice based on inaccurate information.

Let's drop this one we have a more interesting debate going. This 1 wasn't that serious?

no one is saying that patients are stupid. just that its our responsibility as medical professionals to make sure that the right information is being circulated. NOT misinformation or disinformation.

jive turkey · Aug 22, 2021

28 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

"Aliens are coming to earth tonight, they only kill people who don't hide, you should hide".

???

That was fun Munro thank you for that

guest1163268 · Aug 22, 2021

33 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

I've read that article, we discussed it early in the thread.

That study consists of less than 300 participants to make a claim about having a greater reinfection rate.

I shared a study where out of 50,000 participants none were reinfected.

I shared a CDC study consisting of 15,000 participants over 1yr period. 1% reinfected.

I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me how many reinfected people are getting hospitalized or dying. Nobody has successfully done that that period

I see people cherry picking studies to support their position

Help me understand why these types of studies get thrown to the wind but but you will cite a study that covered significantly fewer people.

???

Point proven!! ????

FutureNP90 · Aug 23, 2021

16 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

I've read that article, we discussed it early in the thread.

That study consists of less than 300 participants to make a claim about having a greater reinfection rate.

I shared a study where out of 50,000 participants none were reinfected.

I shared a CDC study consisting of 15,000 participants over 1yr period. 1% reinfected.

I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me how many reinfected people are getting hospitalized or dying. Nobody has successfully done that that period

I see people cherry picking studies to support their position

Help me understand why these types of studies get thrown to the wind but but you will cite a study that covered significantly fewer people.

Im not going back through all the pages to find the studies that you posted, but can you let me know if these were "Joe and Sally anti-maskers/anti-vaxers"? OR were these medical professionals at work who know that even without the vaccine, if they masked up they would help lower transmission of the disease? Because let's be honest, the majority of those who are anti-vax are also anti-mask, and those are the people dying in the hospitals right now, asking for the vaccine when its too late.

Well, let's think about why there isn't much information about the severity of covid in reinfected patients, maybe there is a reason why this is not a prioritized observation?

If people are being reinfected with covid 45 days to 3.5 months after being infected, did they really build immunity to the disease? Best case scenario, the reinfected are NOT as sick as they were the first time; but is it worth the medical bills? (now that we have a way to prevent spread and severe disease insurances will not be fully covering medical services). is it worth the fever/headache/malaise/ long lasting medical issues? Why do people insist that being sick is fun or nothing to worry about? Worst case scenario, you lose lung function, brain function, you cannot breathe, you get intubated and never get extubated, oh yeah and you can die. Why go through all of that when you can PREVENT it?

On top of that, I will mention it again, the vaccine is not just about the individual. It's about the population, about your community, about your children, the immunocompromised. I don't understand the selfishness, especially as a medical professional.

Are you willing to take responsibility for someone who decides not to vaccinated because they quoted you regarding your lackadaisical attitude regarding vaccination? What if they show up at your door with medical bills? or being served with wrongful death?

When most of the information out there is telling people to get vaccinated, when most of the evidence out there is supports people getting vaccinated, when most physicians and nurses and other medical professionals are telling people to get vaccinated...it sounds like those who are neutral or decide not to be vaccinated are the ones "cherry picking" information to apply to their "beliefs".

Im not here to convince anyone to be vaccinated, at this point Darwinism is doing its thing. If a person is out here "drinking the kool aid and not knowing the flavor" it's those who are anti-vax, and spreading unsubstantiated, non-evidence based anti-vax information.

iNurs5, CNA · Aug 23, 2021

55 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

I doubt you have an interest in my college curriculum. People often try to discredit and disqualify someone's perspective by challenging their academic background. If you're trying to do that we can stop addressing one another.

Quote

I'm not interested in personal attacks.

It's not a "personal attack." I'm gauging how much you know and whys. Feel free to share your own educated reason. Did you find something alarming that is more damaging in the long run than trying to control this pandemic?

... I'm not affiliated with giant pharmaceuticals or profited businesses.

jive turkey · Aug 23, 2021

8 minutes ago, FutureNP90 said:

1.Im not going back through all the pages to find the studies that you posted, but can you let me know if these were "

2.Well, let's think about why there isn't much information about the severity of covid in reinfected patients, maybe there is a reason why this is not a prioritized observation?

3.If people are being reinfected with covid 45 days to 3.5 months after being infected, did they really build immunity to the disease? Best case scenario, the reinfected are NOT as sick as they were the first time; but is it worth the medical bills? (

4.On top of that, I will mention it again, the vaccine is not just about the individual. It's

5.Are you willing to take responsibility for someone who decides not to vaccinated b

6.it's those who are anti-vax, and spreading unsubstantiated, non-evidence based anti-vax information.

1. That's on you. I'm tired of posting the same link multiple times because someone didn't want to go back n find it. You can always Google the CDC study, the Cleveland Clinic study, and the University of Missouri study regarding COVID reinfection

2. That's speculation. Let's be real, if they can report the number of unvaccinated people hospitalized they can just as easily tell us if those same unvaccinated people ever had COVID before

3. You can see the aforementioned studies to answer that.

4. Vaccinated or PCR+ it can still be spread. There is a degree of ambiguity in terms of how much less the vaccinated people can spread.

5. "Your honor my momma died from COVID because somebody named Jive Turkey on the internet said he's not on a crusade to tell people to take the vaccine or not, said he feels people should talk to the doctor to see if the vaccine is appropriate for them, but cited some studies were reinfected people were rarely getting COVID, so she didn't get vaccinated and it's Jive Turkeys fault"

6. I can agree there are people claiming ridiculous things like microchips in the vaccines. They're wrong for that. Not everyone who is hesitant is an "anti vaxxer". That term is becoming a new form of hate speech

jive turkey · Aug 23, 2021

10 minutes ago, Honyebee said:

It's not a "personal attack." I'm gauging how much you know and whys. Feel free to share your own educated reason. Did you find something alarming that is more damaging in the long run than trying to control this pandemic?

... I'm not affiliated with giant pharmaceuticals or profited businesses.

OK well don't worry about what classes I took let's stay on subject.

Let me see how up to speed you are on this thread. Do you know what my stated position was on this subject?

FutureNP90 · Aug 23, 2021

1 minute ago, jive turkey said:

1. That's on you. I'm tired of posting the same link multiple times because someone didn't want to go back n find it. You can always Google the CDC study, the Cleveland Clinic study, and the University of Missouri study regarding COVID reinfection

2. That's speculation. Let's be real, if they can report the number of unvaccinated people hospitalized they can just as easily tell us if those same unvaccinated people ever had COVID before

3. You can see the aforementioned studies to answer that.

4. Vaccinated or PCR+ it can still be spread. There is a degree of ambiguity in terms of how much less the vaccinated people can spread.

5. "Your honor my momma died from COVID because somebody named Jive Turkey on the internet said he's not on a crusade to tell people to take the vaccine or not, said he feels people should talk to the doctor to see if the vaccine is appropriate for them, but cited some studies were reinfected people were rarely getting COVID, so she didn't get vaccinated and it's Jive Turkeys fault"

6. I can agree there are people claiming ridiculous things like microchips in the vaccines. They're wrong for that. Not everyone who is hesitant is an "anti vaxxer". That term is becoming a new form of hate speech

Yeah, keep trolling. Good luck to you.

Also, no, calling someone an anti-vaxxer is NOT hate speech. some people want to be oppressed so badly. get over it.

jive turkey · Aug 23, 2021

1 hour ago, FutureNP90 said:

Yeah, keep trolling. Good luck to you.

Also, no, calling someone an anti-vaxxer is NOT hate speech. some people want to be oppressed so badly. get over it.

The good old "You're trolling " cop out. Often used when someone realizes their arguments are weak.

You never did answer my question, most don't.

It's hard to argue why a study of less than 300 people has greater value than a study of 50k and15k

It's hard to argue against the fact there's no data about how many previously infected people are hospitalized and dying.

Thanks for your feedback though

toomuchbaloney · Aug 23, 2021

12 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

The good old "You're trolling " cop out. Often used when someone realizes their arguments are weak.

You never did answer my question, most don't.

It's hard to argue why a study of less than 300 people has greater value than a study of 50k and15k

It's hard to argue against the fact there's no data about how many previously infected people are hospitalized and dying.

Thanks for your feedback though

It's hard to argue against the reality that the vaccines are safe and effective and all eligible adults are encouraged to vaccinate regardless of previous infection with covid. Delaying vaccination for other than true contraindication puts other Americans and our health system at risk.

All eligible adults should vaccinate ASAP.

allnurses Guide · Aug 23, 2021

32 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

It's hard to argue against the fact there's no data about how many previously infected people are hospitalized and dying.

Here’s the thing:

Vaccinating those that are covid-convalescent is of a lower priority than the rest of the unvaccinated population. But there isn’t a vaccine shortage, and while the M&M evidence isn’t readily available, there is not a single major medical body recommendation that doesn’t recommend vaccination.

Professionally, I really don’t have major concerns with those that are “PCR+” choosing not to get vaccinated, but I do have a problem with most of their rationale, and you are embodying that here: you have your mind made up and are looking for reasons to support that decision. This is the antithesis of the scientific process and I think a lot of the posters here pick up on that, and have a visceral reaction to it. This is what bred the anti-vax movement originally.

I don’t fully disagree with your position, but I think if you are honest with yourself and your approach, you’ll see the difference.

hello_nurse555 · Aug 23, 2021

K fine I'll bite even though it's not going to convince anyone to change a thing.

I'm a bedside nurse, been surrounded by covid since the start, and haven't gotten sick (thank god). I started regularly taking antibody tests last year and had antibodies as of a few weeks ago.

I'm not getting the vaccine. I wanted to wait a few years to see how things were going with it before I got it. Well, I'm repulsed by the bullying I see over it, and that pretty much sealed my decision not to get it. If that offends you, maybe work on your triggers, because the bullying and name calling helps no one. You aren't changing any minds, just helping people dig their heels in.

OK, let's say 100% of people in first world countries get vaccinated, with a vaccine that already has a declining effectiveness. How do you stop the vaccine from coursing through and mutating in third world countries and circling right back to society?

Because mutating is a concern. At the beginning of the vaccine dispersement, I saw a compelling argument by Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche who tried to raise flags or concerns over the vaccine. He said, among other things, that we do not fully understand covid, its course in the body, or how to treat it. That a vaccine has never been implemented mid-pandemic. And he was concerned at the time that all the vaccine would do would be to create a false sense of security with an initial plateau, and then it would mutate, as viruses are better at doing than bacteria, as coronaviruses are especially good at doing.

He said we would be creating superbugs with the current implementation, and eventually deadlier and deadlier variants would emerge. We now have the delta variant. What after?

Perhaps the vaccines are causing the variants, and it is not the unvaccinated causing the problem. It is worth considering. All perspectives should be worth considering (Check out the Barrington Report).

Because there is something off with leadership, and I don't trust a government that performs forced, non-consented sterilizations or syphilis infections on groups of people, among other things. I do believe sociopaths have their own agenda, and I do believe sociopaths have a lot of power in this world, and I do believe if you research you can see their views on population control.

I don't care if distrust makes me sound like a wingnut. I assure you I am sane, and I have my reasons to believe we should have more transparency on upper tiers of the power structure.

Because I believe in freedom, and I don't believe that much we have done has really curbed this virus. For those who avoided hospitalization this time, I wonder if they will be so lucky again in the long term.

Those who say this is the way to the end of the pandemic can't say that because we have never been in a situation like this, so no one knows.

Because I have never seen a vaccine cause so many side effects, which I have seen commonly with my own eyeballs. Everyone says it's safe, and I won't believe that until it has been out for a few decades. Everyone thought certain surgical procedures and medications were safe, and now we see midnight commercials offering compensation.

I believe the psychology driving all this is fear, and I believe first it was the masks, could have been politics, could have been racism, now it's the vaccines, but people love a good scapegoat, and that might make us blind. We need to work together now more than ever before.

Because if people are naturally immune to it, we need to know who those people are and eventually we need to understand why. We need a control group of the unvaccinated. I volunteer because I refuse to believe our species needs this to survive.

I'm ignoring or blocking all condescending and rude replies.