Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

Updated:   Published

how-effective-covid-vaccines.jpg.96ffa92aaf7f3699ea2c91d50c4cb9c2.jpg

Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

10 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:

So does anyone have any thoughts on getting a whole vaccine, unattenuated, as a booster, instead of an Rna booster? 

My thoughts are, I'm not sure how an Rna booster is applicable, because our immune systems might have decreased antibodies, but it hasn't forgotten. Short of actually contracting Covid, I'm conflicted about a variant with a modified spike protein. I mean it's a simple disease with tiny amounts of proteins, but as far as I remember, viruses can be tricky? Wouldn't a tiny variation of the spike via a variant be a troublemaker? 

I’m on call and I just got called. So very short answer. I’m personally not in a hurry to get a live vaccine. We’ve already seen several changes to the spike protein. The vaccines still offer good protection. If the virus mutates to the point that it escapes the vaccines, I expect we’ll see the vaccines tweaked to better fit the new variant. Sorry, gotta go! 

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Just now, macawake said:

I’m on call and I just got called. So very short answer. I’m personally not in a hurry to get a live vaccine. We’ve already seen several changes to the spike protein. The vaccines still offer good protection. If the virus mutates to the point that it escapes the vaccines, I expect we’ll see the vaccines tweaked to better fit the new variant. Sorry, gotta go! 

Congrats on the British Open by the way. It was a nail biting finish for Nordqvist! 

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical Care.
1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

Advice is suggesting a course of action.

Declaring a personal choice based on naccurate information, not necessarily.

I can appreciate where the author is coming from. The concern is the patient considers the MA as a trusted source for information and makes a choice based on it, creating a liability for the company.

If someone tells someone else that the Covid vaccine causes Covid, then it wouldn't seem to really matter if they failed to add "you shouldn't get the vaccine, it causes Covid".  The message is the same either way.  

If someone is spreading misinformation then they are interfering with the right of others to make an informed decision, as opposed to a misinformed decision.

4
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

Advice is suggesting a course of action.

Declaring a personal choice based on naccurate information, not necessarily.

I can appreciate where the author is coming from. The concern is the patient considers the MA as a trusted source for information and makes a choice based on it, creating a liability for the company.

Well, that is a problem.  NO ONE should be leaning on an MA as a "trusted source."  Maybe the patient thinks the MA is a nurse since so many places do not make that clear or just go along with the lie.  You are correct that the MA is a liability because of her lack of judgement, which is hard to cure if you don't have any by adulthood:)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in A variety.
16 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

If someone tells someone else that the Covid vaccine causes Covid, then it wouldn't seem to really matter if they failed to add "you shouldn't get the vaccine, it causes Covid".  The message is the same either way.  

If someone is spreading misinformation then they are interfering with the right of others to make an informed decision, as opposed to a misinformed decision.

That's not what the author said.  According to the author the MA said they "beleive it does"

 

Don't get it twisted, I'm not saying it's cool or irrepressible. She should have kept her opinion to herself.  What I was asking is if she was advising the patient or sharing her beliefs.  

I don't agree that her rights are being interfered with.  I agree it was a bad idea to say that as it can confuse people leading to a misinformed decision. 

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical Care.
11 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

That's not what the author said.  According to the author the MA said they "beleive it does"

 

Don't get it twisted, I'm not saying it's cool or irrepressible. She should have kept her opinion to herself.  What I was asking is if she was advising the patient or sharing her beliefs.  

I don't agree that her rights are being interfered with.  I agree it was a bad idea to say that as it can confuse people leading to a misinformed decision. 

Again, I'm not sure that leaving something out that is implied in the statement anyways creates a fundamental difference in what was said.

If someone says "the covid vaccine causes covid", then adding "I believe" to that is superfluous, by definition a declarative statement is something you believe.

The difference between advice an explanation of a personal choice would be that advice relates to circumstances that apply to the person you're speaking to while just explaining a personal choice does not.  Saying that the Covid vaccine causes Covid would apply to the person hearing the statement, not jus the person making the statement.

Propagating misinformation that then contributes to a decision someone makes is pretty clearly affecting the person's ability to make an informed decision, I'm not sure what the gray are is there.

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Customer service.

In my country, there's a curfew. Not wearing mask or staying out late in public gets arrested. 

The bills of rights don't cover people who transmit highly contagious diseases. Some people don't really respect nice talk. Anything can change. No amount of laws can protect a dangerous behavior.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in A variety.
2 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

Again, I'm not sure that leaving something out that is implied in the statement anyways creates a fundamental difference in what was said.

If someone says "the covid vaccine causes covid", then adding "I believe" to that is superfluous, by definition a declarative statement is something you believe.

The difference between advice an explanation of a personal choice would be that advice relates to circumstances that apply to the person you're speaking to while just explaining a personal choice does not.  Saying that the Covid vaccine causes Covid would apply to the person hearing the statement, not jus the person making the statement.

Propagating misinformation that then contributes to a decision someone makes is pretty clearly affecting the person's ability to make an informed decision, I'm not sure what the gray are is there.

We both agree the MA made a poor choice putting the patient at risk for taking a course of action based on unfounded information. 

 

Just for fun though we can debate if it qualified as advice or not

If someone said , "Munro  I believe aliens are coming to Earth tonight,  I'm hiding in the basement"

Vs

"Munro aliens are coming to earth tonight you should hide in the basement"

One is advice, the other is someone sharing their thoughts and plans which you may take that to mean you should follow suit.... but they didn't exactly advise you what to do. 

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in A variety.
1 minute ago, Honyebee said:

In my country, there's a curfew. Not wearing mask or staying late gets arrested. 

The bills of rights don't cover people who transmit highly contagious diseases. Some people don't really respect nice talk.

We are in a forum of professionals.  Having a difference of opinion is not the same as breaking laws.

I've seen evidence of how this hostile approach to vaccination serves to make people MORE resistant.  I often worry people are so overcome by their fears they use the disease as an outlet to lash out at people.  

I'd like to understand how anyone thinks being unkind is going to encourage vaccination. 

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Customer service.
2 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

We are in a forum of professionals.  Having a difference of opinion is not the same as breaking laws.

I've seen evidence of how this hostile approach to vaccination serves to make people MORE resistant.  I often worry people are so overcome by their fears they use the disease as an outlet to lash out at people.  

I'd like to understand how anyone thinks being unkind is going to encourage vaccination. 

So, there's no connection between behaviors and the widespread of this evolving  pandemic? 

I can talk about how to isolate viruses and grow them.

What are the words do you want me to use? 

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Customer service.

Jive Turkey,

I don't know what you've been doing. I worked in straight up covid unit for several months. I don't fear deaths. I fear for the young people to be disabled sooner and any unknown damages that their olders will leave behind. If you don't think that the younger generation is not your future, then I can understand that there's no need to prevent the irreversible damages for them. Who cares? 

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in A variety.
1 minute ago, Honyebee said:

So, there's no connection between behaviors and the widespread of this evolving  pandemic? 

I can talk about how to isolate viruses and grow them.

What are the words do you want me to use? 

There is a connection.  There are many people genuinely hesitant due to a lack of information. There are those who are hesitant because of valid information available.  These people are often the targets of hostility and sharp criticism causing them to be even more hesitant.  

In my opinion, anyone using someone's hesitancy as grounds for being disrespectful is more selfish than those they acuse of being so.

 

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion