Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

[jive turkey]

Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

[jive turkey]

2 hours ago, FutureNP90 said:

Don't be patronizing. I actually have read all 17 pages, and STILL, I cannot find a valid reason to understand why (you think) people who have contracted covid should not be vaccinated. But what I did do (in my most recent post) is explain the literal most BASIC reason why those who have contracted covid should still be vaccinated. 

Heres the thing: if you are afraid of needles, just say that; if you are scared of an adverse reaction, just say that; whatever the reason. Explain your hesitancy and have a conversation with your medical provider. If you are a candidate to be vaccinated, do it.  This isn't a conversation about religion, veganism, or why you like the color blue over the color red. We have hard facts, based on evidence that explicitly explains why everyone who CAN be vaccinated, SHOULD be vaccinated. 

 

I assure you, you're not being patronized.  You directed your vaccination message to me specifically even though I have not and don't intend to share my medical history.  That led me to believe you hadn't read what I've been saying. If you did,  my bad. 

Here's what I did say:

My personal position is that anyone who has never been infected or are high risk,  consult their provider to determine if the vaccine is appropriate for them.  

For those who have been infected and/or are high risk, same. 

I'm not on a crusade  to tell people they should or should not get it. 

In another post I reinforced that with: if someone who was previously infected,  consulted their physician, with consideration of their personal medical history,  was informed of the risks and benefits of the vaccine vs reinfection and determined the risk of the vaccine was greater than that of reinfection for them I would consider that a valid reason not to do it.

I shared multiple references regarding the rarity of reinfection. 

None of us has found our shared data that speaks to how many reinfected people are hospitalized or dying. 

I've taken a fairly neutral position about the vaccine however unlike most here, I'm willing to accept that allergies and contraindications aren't the only reason someone shouldn't take the vaccine.  

If you don't think what I said is a valid reason that's cool too! Difference of opinion.

[jive turkey]

2 hours ago, GrumpyRN said:

1.Yet you do it anyway.

Yet your most recent juvenile response is immediately above that post, and I quote; 

"You're all in the kool aid n don't know the flavor. ?"

2.You continue to deflect and feel superior because someone (me in this case) called out your lack of scientific rigour. And you're correct, I don't need you to tell me when someone is making a good counter argument - I know you aren't.

3. You have been told by me and several other posters that we cannot find anything like what you are referring to so just post them again.

 

1. Did I call anyone names? Get the facts right. Just because my dialect isn't the same as yours doesn't make it juvenile. Don't be disrespectful. 

2. How do you presume to know I think I'm superior to a bunch of random people on the internet I'm not acquainted with? Did I say that? Nnnnnnope! Stick to the facts bro.  The more you make this personal the greater chance one of those moderators comes and shuts it down. If you want a roast battle send me a DM. 

3. If you can't find it you don't have to quote me anymore.  I recently replied to someone else. You're welcome to find the answer there. 

[klone, MSN, RN]

12 hours ago, FutureNP90 said:

It blows my mind! At this point its willful ignorance. How can you have that much education, and no way to apply critical thinking. 

At this point, I don't even care about the kind of shortage that results, but we need to make sure that nurses and other medical professionals that do not believe in the scientific method and how they impact their populations need to go. It's embarrassing I agree!

In my job as a clinic manager, last Spring I got two patient complaints in a week about one of our MAs who was telling patients that she and her friends believed that the vaccine can cause Covid, and that’s why she won’t be getting it (nevermind that she already contracted Covid). This woman was a MAGA, Harley-riding Sturgis participant. 
 

I interviewed both patients who filed the complaint in order to make sure the statements were credible, there I fired her on the spot. Didn’t even give her a chance to explain. 
 

And yep, she was otherwise a good MA, and we worked short-staffed for 3 months while we could hire and train her replacement. But it was the right decision, and I’d do it again. 

[anewsns]

18 minutes ago, klone said:

In my job as a clinic manager, last Spring I got two patient complaints in a week about one of our MAs who was telling patients that she and her friends believed that the vaccine can cause Covid, and that’s why she won’t be getting it (nevermind that she already contracted Covid). This woman was a MAGA, Harley-riding Sturgis participant. 
 

I interviewed both patients who filed the complaint in order to make sure the statements were credible, there I fired her on the spot. Didn’t even give her a chance to explain. 
 

And yep, she was otherwise a good MA, and we worked short-staffed for 3 months while we could hire and train her replacement. But it was the right decision, and I’d do it again. 

Ugh, thats so rough but I probably would have done the same honestly. Sometimes I would rather not know peoples opinions. It can mess up my relationship with them. But once I do know, I cant turn back. I've turned to passively educating and not aggressively educating. I don't like to waste energy on people who are being willfully ignorant. I think if people don't want to get the vaccine they need to stay home and always wear an n95 or k95 when they go out. As Americans, we don't like to do anything that restricts our freedom, but its not the government or organizations that are restricting our freedoms. It is the virus, and also those who are refusing to make any sacrifice at all. If you don't get the vaccine, you need to make some sacrifices for the good of everyone else. Whether it is staying home and working from home, wearing that k95, getting vaccinated, and yes, perhaps losing your job working with sick people. You cant have your cake and eat it too. We ALL want to go back to normal so lets just stop arguing and speed up. 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

15 hours ago, jive turkey said:

You're all in the kool aid n don't know the flavor. ?

I know good n well they don't.  

This was based on an argument made personal by another poster that I don't wish to explain over

Then what does this mean?   You wrote it:   Do you write prescriptions for patients you've never seen without knowing their medical history? Knowing their allergies?  Having at least accesss to their chart if you've never evaluated them.

[anewsns]

We keep praising those who fought for our freedoms, heroic Americans. Apparently we are not willing to make our own smaller sacrifices to gain freedom from this virus. We are just leeching off the freedoms someone else bought for us. We are like wealthy spoiled teens who never worked a day in our lives. 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

13 hours ago, Honyebee said:

"https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/why-covid-19-vaccines-should-not-be-required-for-all-americans" 

I stayed immune (verified with lab tests) ordered by my physician throughout the year. I can donate plasma. However, I saw the doctors and nurses receiving the vaccine. They took them first before me. We were ready for the negative reactions. If the doctors refused the COVID-19 vaccines, why would on Earth I want them,too? 

I don't always trust people. For example, I demand an STD or STI test together with a potential lover before anything else. That's a requirement. This is where I use my black and white mentality. 

98% of doctors are vaccinated.  Where did you read that they aren't?  You always have to account for a few kooks in any profession.  2% kooks sounds about right to me:)  

[jive turkey]

5 hours ago, klone said:

In my job as a clinic manager, last Spring I got two patient complaints in a week about one of our MAs who was telling patients that she and her friends believed that the vaccine can cause Covid, and that’s why she won’t be getting it (nevermind that she already contracted Covid). This woman was a MAGA, Harley-riding Sturgis participant. 
 

I interviewed both patients who filed the complaint in order to make sure the statements were credible, there I fired her on the spot. Didn’t even give her a chance to explain. 
 

And yep, she was otherwise a good MA, and we worked short-staffed for 3 months while we could hire and train her replacement. But it was the right decision, and I’d do it again. 

Was she giving them advice regarding whether or not they should take it or sharing why she personally wasn't taking it?

 

[MunoRN, RN]

34 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

Was she giving them advice regarding whether or not they should take it or sharing why she personally wasn't taking it?

 

I'm not sure what the difference is between sharing (false) information about the vaccine as being your personal reason for not getting vaccinated and giving them advice.  People make their decisions based on the information they receive. 

[jive turkey]

13 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

I'm not sure what the difference is between sharing (false) information about the vaccine as being your personal reason for not getting vaccinated and giving them advice.  People make their decisions based on the information they receive. 

Advice is suggesting a course of action.

Declaring a personal choice based on naccurate information, not necessarily.

I can appreciate where the author is coming from. The concern is the patient considers the MA as a trusted source for information and makes a choice based on it, creating a liability for the company.

[macawake, MSN]

6 hours ago, klone said:

In my job as a clinic manager, last Spring I got two patient complaints in a week about one of our MAs who was telling patients that she and her friends believed that the vaccine can cause Covid, and that’s why she won’t be getting it (nevermind that she already contracted Covid). 

 

1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

Was she giving them advice regarding whether or not they should take it or sharing why she personally wasn't taking it?

 

The question you ask is one that is 100% not interesting and 100% not relevant to ask. I have to wonder why you found it of interest? 

A healthcare professional talking to patients at her place of work, meaning in her professional role, CANNOT share falsehoods and LIES. Period. It is literally impossible for the Covid-19 vaccines in use in the U.S. to give a person a Covid infection. And that is what every healthcare professional should share if anyone asks (in any setting).

[guest1163268]

1 minute ago, macawake said:

 

The question you ask is one that is 100% not interesting and 100% not relevant to ask. I have to wonder why you find found of interest? 

A healthcare professional talking to patients at her place of work, meaning in her professional role, CANNOT share falsehoods and LIES. Period. It is literally impossible for the Covid-19 vaccines in use in the U.S. to give a person a Covid infection. 

So does anyone have any thoughts on getting a whole vaccine, unattenuated, as a booster, instead of an Rna booster? 

 

My thoughts are, I'm not sure how an Rna booster is applicable, because our immune systems might have decreased antibodies, but it hasn't forgotten. Short of actually contracting Covid, I'm conflicted about a variant with a modified spike protein. I mean it's a simple disease with tiny amounts of proteins, but as far as I remember, viruses can be tricky? Wouldn't a tiny variation of the spike via a variant be a troublemaker?

Macawake, your expertise is required here. You seem to know more about these things and I would prefer to have my thinking corrected before I make a mistake. 

 

Does anyone have any thoughts or is my thinking wonky?