Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

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Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

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"https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/why-covid-19-vaccines-should-not-be-required-for-all-americans" 

I stayed immune (verified with lab tests) ordered by my physician throughout the year. I can donate plasma. However, I saw the doctors and nurses receiving the vaccine. They took them first before me. We were ready for the negative reactions. If the doctors refused the COVID-19 vaccines, why would on Earth I want them,too? 

I don't always trust people. For example, I demand an STD or STI test together with a potential lover before anything else. That's a requirement. This is where I use my black and white mentality. 

26 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

1. So? ?

2. There are those seeing the discussion later on and didn't read any or all of what I've said. The fact you're addressing me and my vaccination decisions directly leads me to believe this applies to you.  

The concerns I did express were about people who've had COVID, and how effective vaccination would be for them.   

 

Don't be patronizing. I actually have read all 17 pages, and STILL, I cannot find a valid reason to understand why (you think) people who have contracted covid should not be vaccinated. But what I did do (in my most recent post) is explain the literal most BASIC reason why those who have contracted covid should still be vaccinated. 

Heres the thing: if you are afraid of needles, just say that; if you are scared of an adverse reaction, just say that; whatever the reason. Explain your hesitancy and have a conversation with your medical provider. If you are a candidate to be vaccinated, do it.  This isn't a conversation about religion, veganism, or why you like the color blue over the color red. We have hard facts, based on evidence that explicitly explains why everyone who CAN be vaccinated, SHOULD be vaccinated. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Honyebee said:

I stayed immune

How the h*** did you "stay immune?" Nobody has immunity, the vaccinated don't have immunity, the previous infected don't have immunity. They are still at risk of catching it but at a reduced level.

Seriously, if you are "immune" then I think WHO would want a word with you and perhaps a sample or 3 so that they can refine whatever wonder juice you carry.

31 minutes ago, macawake said:

This is exactly what I have been wondering for the past eight months or so when I’ve been arguing with numerous posters. It’s not a discussion I ever expected to have on a nursing forum. Quite frankly, it’s embarrassing to behold. 

 

 

It blows my mind! At this point its willful ignorance. How can you have that much education, and no way to apply critical thinking. 

At this point, I don't even care about the kind of shortage that results, but we need to make sure that nurses and other medical professionals that do not believe in the scientific method and how they impact their populations need to go. It's embarrassing I agree!

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2 hours ago, jive turkey said:

Grumpy, you need not qualify yourself with your education to gain immunity from being called stupid. 

Yet you do it anyway.

2 hours ago, jive turkey said:

It Is beneath me to resort to juvenile name calling in response to someone with a counterargument. 

Yet your most recent juvenile response is immediately above that post, and I quote; 

"You're all in the kool aid n don't know the flavor. ?"

2 hours ago, jive turkey said:

When I call people out for personal attacks I don't use it as a crutch to cry victim as you suggest.  When someone specifically calls someone out their name, makes presumptions about their thoughts/feelings (like you just did), or labels them in response to having a different opinion that's not right.  You don't need me to help you discern between someone making a good counter argument vs someone trying to be insulting. 

You continue to deflect and feel superior because someone (me in this case) called out your lack of scientific rigour. And you're correct, I don't need you to tell me when someone is making a good counter argument - I know you aren't.

2 hours ago, jive turkey said:

I've already posted what I considered a valid reason for an individual not to IMO. I'm not doing it again.  Feel free to look for it and counter it.  It's a long thread so no sweat off my back if you don't.  

You have been told by me and several other posters that we cannot find anything like what you are referring to so just post them again. If they are true and correct they are still as true and correct as when you allege you posted them even though we can't find them. 

Go on... Indulge us... 

 

39 minutes ago, Honyebee said:

"https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/why-covid-19-vaccines-should-not-be-required-for-all-americans" 

I stayed immune (verified with lab tests) ordered by my physician throughout the year. I can donate plasma. However, I saw the doctors and nurses receiving the vaccine. They took them first before me. We were ready for the negative reactions. If the doctors refused the COVID-19 vaccines, why would on Earth I want them,too? 

I don't always trust people. For example, I demand an STD or STI test together with a potential lover before anything else. That's a requirement. This is where I use my black and white mentality. 

This is the study that the OPINION article has quoted: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2

AND still at the end of the paper the conclusion states: Conclusions: Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before.

This does not mean that those who have already contracted covid should NOT get the vaccine, but that it should be prioritized to those who have not been vaccinated yet. That being said, once those people are vaccinated, because we cannot standardize the viral load and therefore the immune response to help get a handle on the pandemic and reach herd immunity our best case scenario get out of this pandemic is to be all be vaccinated (if you are a valid candidate). This will result in less transmission of the virus (which Delta apparently now has an R naught of 5-9.5), less transmission means less people sick, less people sick means less people die.

One thing to note: this study was done on healthcare workers (employees). These people are avid mask wearers, especially at work, where risk is very high. We are not talking about Joe and Sally who go to the supermarket WITHOUT masks and insist that their freedoms are being taken away if they are told to wear a mask, quote "HIPAA", and scream "I cant breathe" (which if you are screaming...you can breathe).

 

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18 minutes ago, GrumpyRN said:

How the h*** did you "stay immune?" Nobody has immunity, the vaccinated don't have immunity, the previous infected don't have immunity. They are still at risk of catching it but at a reduced level.

Seriously, if you are "immune" then I think WHO would want a word with you and perhaps a sample or 3 so that they can refine whatever wonder juice you carry.

They took some samples. Who knows? Each of us is unique. Remember this woman? Henrietta Lacks

5 minutes ago, Honyebee said:

They took some samples. Who knows? Each of us is unique. Remember this woman? Henrietta Lacks

You would think then that someone would've reached out to you to help create a cure, right? I agree we are all different, but we cannot say each of us is unique when it comes to this pandemic. 

The worst part is, you don't even see the privilege in your statement. There are those who don't have access to a vaccine for whatever reason (healthcare, health information, distrust in medicine because of inequity and inequality) and here you are thinking you are "special" for not needing to get one.

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13 minutes ago, FutureNP90 said:

This is the study that the OPINION article has quoted: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2

AND still at the end of the paper the conclusion states: Conclusions: Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before.

This does not mean that those who have already contracted covid should NOT get the vaccine, but that it should be prioritized to those who have not been vaccinated yet. That being said, once those people are vaccinated, because we cannot standardize the viral load and therefore the immune response to help get a handle on the pandemic and reach herd immunity our best case scenario get out of this pandemic is to be all be vaccinated (if you are a valid candidate). This will result in less transmission of the virus (which Delta apparently now has an R naught of 5-9.5), less transmission means less people sick, less people sick means less people die.

One thing to note: this study was done on healthcare workers (employees). These people are avid mask wearers, especially at work, where risk is very high. We are not talking about Joe and Sally who go to the supermarket WITHOUT masks and insist that their freedoms are being taken away if they are told to wear a mask, quote "HIPAA", and scream "I cant breathe" (which if you are screaming...you can breathe).

 

They should wear the N95 up  to 16hours x 6 a week and unable to get out of the unit until the end of their shift.  Wearing a mask is for safety. I would like it consistently before this pandemic. Unfortunately, it wasn't necessary back then.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, FutureNP90 said:

You would think then that someone would've reached out to you to help create a cure, right? I agree we are all different, but we cannot say each of us is unique when it comes to this pandemic. 

The worst part is, you don't even see the privilege in your statement. There are those who don't have access to a vaccine for whatever reason (healthcare, health information, distrust in medicine because of inequity and inequality) and here you are thinking you are "special" for not needing to get one.

You're right. Anyway, I still get the vaccines because I want extra protection. I wear a mask as usual, wash hands, and keep my hands away from my face.

2 minutes ago, Honyebee said:

They should wear the N95 up  to 16hours x 6 a week and unable to get out of the unit until the end of their shift.  Wearing a mask is for safety. I would like it consistently before this pandemic. Unfortunately, it wasn't necessary back then.

 

 

I'm sorry, I promise I'm not trying to be rude but I'm not sure I understand your response. Who is "they" (employees? Joe and sally?) 

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Just now, FutureNP90 said:

I'm sorry, I promise I'm not trying to be rude but I'm not sure I understand your response. Who is "they" (employees? Joe and sally?) 

Those people, Joe and Sally, at the store. They're playing their odds. I'm not playing with this virus. I don't want to play my odd to breathe through the tubes.

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