Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it, or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.
I'll start:
The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected. I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard. There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion, don't offer a definitive answer.
Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:
Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research
Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021
5 hours ago, MunoRN said:I didn't discount the validity of the Italy study, I questioned it's relevance to current conditions.
Natural immunity, particularly where natural immunity is largely B-cell mediated, is typically most effective shortly after an infection and where the circulating virus matches the initial infection.
The concern currently is that many of those who had natural immunity are more than 6 months and in many cases more than a year out from an infection to a virus that doesn't match well to the circulating virus. The Italy study looked at risk of reinfection within a few months of the initial infection, and not in the setting of a variant.
As for studies showing current risk of death we're only now approaching the phase of the current Delta wave where deaths will occur. Hospitalizations tend to lag behind new cases by 1 to 2 weeks and deaths lag behind hospitalizations by 2 weeks or more.
You didn't discount the Italy study? I have to respectfully remind you that you said of the Italy study:
"This is of little to no relevance "
So if one year isn't enough how many is?
You quoted another study where the reinfection rate was 0.7%. How low should it be?
You saw a study were 0 people were reinfected. Didn't speak to it.
I hear your concerns of the Delta variant. We hear current information about how the unvaccinated are comprising the majority of current hospitalizations. Everyone is vocal about that, understandably. But yet we have no info about the reinfected being hospitalized. Counterarguments I get seem to suggest one should assume it's coming.
10 hours ago, Dacatster said:Not trying to be a snot. But why not post the valid reasons instead of just supplying links?
Thank you for not being a snot. Many people have struggled not to on this discussion?
The center paragraph addresses that. There's other posts where I answered that question further I just don't feel like retyping it again. The links were intended to show scientific evidence people have to support their decision to take the shot or not, and so others could post information that we could all learn from.
5 hours ago, subee said:#1Well, since we aren't reading about re-infected people dying, I'm assuming that this means that they aren't. Just proves the worth of vaccination.
#2But I am not getting what you are trying to prove. People who aren't hospitalized can still spread the virus after re-infections. Isn't the Kentucky study referring to the Delta variant (which would make it different from the Italy study).?
#1 Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here. How does that speak to the worth of the vaccination when referring to people who didn't take it?
#2 My approach has been less about proving anything and more about expressing concerns while sharing information with others that shows why people nay be hesitant. We hear too much of people attacking those who don't want to take the vaccine accusing them of being selfish among other things.
12 minutes ago, jive turkey said:#2 My approach has been less about proving anything and more about expressing concerns while sharing information with others that shows why people nay be hesitant. We hear too much of people attacking those who don't want to take the vaccine accusing them of being selfish among other things.
What exactly are your concerns regarding the vaccines and what are they based on❓
7 hours ago, jive turkey said:Thank you for not being a snot. Many people have struggled not to on this discussion?
The center paragraph addresses that. There's other posts where I answered that question further I just don't feel like retyping it again. The links were intended to show scientific evidence people have to support their decision to take the shot or not, and so others could post information that we could all learn from.
The middle paragraph only talks about people that already had Covid. It doesn't discuss allegergies and hx of Guillen Barre and such
34 minutes ago, Dacatster said:The middle paragraph only talks about people that already had Covid. It doesn't discuss allegergies and hx of Guillen Barre and such
I may have missed something. I didn't speak to GB. My arguments about allergies was a side discussion addressed to a particular person, but not relative to the primary concern I addressed which was about the previously infected.
No amount of evidence to convince some people. They just do whatever. Look at drug abuse alone. Is there a high significance of drug abusers quitting and new users? There are mountains of well documented evidence that drug abuse is bad, people still do it.
Maybe some people really don't care about those who are vulnerable because they aren't productive as they used to be. It's all about me and me
Stay safe.
15 hours ago, macawake said:What exactly are your concerns regarding the vaccines and what are they based on❓
C'mon macawake, you know it is much more fun for Jive Turkey to imagine that they are being insulted personally whenever someone points out the flaws in their argument. That way they get to play the victim and feel superior because "everyone is stupid" or that "no-one understands me" (remember that from adolescence?).
They are deliberately misrepresenting every reply and making it sound as if everyone else is being bullying and abusive. All while never quite managing to actually post evidence that supports their position despite multiple requests to do so.
So to Jive Turkey I make this request; Please give us references that supports your position or at least tells us what you are trying to make us understand because we are now 16 pages into this and I have no idea what you are trying to tell me. (And before you say I am stupid etc. I gained my degree from one of the better British universities so have a bit of understanding).
macawake, MSN
2,141 Posts
What is it that you like about that book?
What makes you think reading it would be worth our time?