Vacation - We need to find our own replacements

[StNeotser]

We have been told if we want to schedule vacation we will have to find our own replacements without the use of pool or the replacement nurse going into overtime. It's apparently been pretty difficult for the staffing office to do so now they are putting the responsibility on the nurses themselves.

We have also been told that we can no longer cash in our unused vacation hours and if our vacation hour bank goes over a certain amount we will not be able to accrue any more hours.

I think this stinks - why should we have to do the scheduling job too on top of everything else if we want time off?

I was just wondering if anyone else here has the same policy?

[nicurn001]

StNeotser , I wait with baited breath for some of the anti union posters to give you real , effective advise upon how to address this situation , as an individual , without reprisal from Administration ( almost certain they will tell you , you should have the ***** to talk as an individual to admin and all will be OK , in that case it would be quicker and easier to offer your head on a platter to admin ! ).

Other than unionizing , or if in union checking your contract ( this situation almost certainly would be covered by a contract ), it would be useful to check what the laws in your state are re. vaction /PTO .,if those laws are being broken inform the appropriate authority .

[lindarn]

Wow...they've got you coming and going. It will be incredibly difficult to take a decent vacation, but if your PTO builds up, you're going to sacrifice that.

Seriously, this must be someone's harebrained idea that cannot possibly stand up to scrutiny, especially from a legal standpoint. As someone else mentioned, your PTO is yours and you have the right to use it.

What's your facility's grievance policy? Who do you file a complaint with regarding staff policy?

Folks, this IS the hospital's agenda- prevent the nurses from taking their accrued vacations-pto, and then take the hours away by not allowing them to cash in the hours not taken. A win-win situation for the hospital!

You have to think outside the box to be able to figure out what is in their devious minds. I agree- take it to the Labor Board. JMHO and my NY $.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

[PostOpPrincess, BSN, RN]

WOW.

Do we wonder why people wouldn't want to work for your hospital????????

[StNeotser, ASN, RN]

Thanks for your responses everybody.

Apparently the staffing office will still attempt to find coverage for our vacations - I just called them. However, if they find it too difficult, then the onus is on the nurse to find coverage from other nurses who will not accrue overtime. I can understand vacation denials, ie; we already have four nurses in your dept taking vacation that week and their requests were put in ahead of yours but this is ridiculous. If the staffing office can't find "appropriate coverage" then how the heck am I supposed to? I work 16 hour baylor shifts, a coworker yesterday who wanted a Saturday off for her young sons birthday party can find one nurse willing to do 12 hours, but the facility will not let the fill-in nurse do the full 16 hours because it will put her into overtime - even though she is an on call nurse. So the vacationing nurse will have to work 4 hours before her sons birthday party. If the vacationing nurse was actually going on vacation she couldn't possibly come in and do the first four hours of the shift.

I'm currently navigating our states Department of Labor and Employment web page - looks like it will take me all day to find the information I need.

I think our facility will start to get a whole lot of sick call-ins because of this. I hope they have to use pool. Three nurses quit last week. Every time I come into work there is a new nasty rule and I'll spend this week sending resumes and calling the labor dept.

I posted mainly because I wondered if there was a facility out there that had gotten away with this sort of policy. Seems the respondents so far haven't had to deal with this. I am of course, in an "at-will" state and non-union because the one time the dietary dept tried to set one up half of them were fired.

Edited to add; We have not had low census. What we have had is a hare-brained management who thought it a great idea to build a $50m extension during a recession. Same management who is watching staff walk out the door every week to new employment still think because they are a non-profit that they are the greatest gig in town.

[pennyaline]

I have seen many hospitals and facilities try to get away with this. It is a multifaceted problem, but an easy one to deal with.

Somewhere in your policy manual, it states how much notice your employer wants from you when you request vacation time. Some places want a month or two, others simply want the request in before the schedule that would be effected by your time off is completed. I have seen employers mandate those requesting time off after the deadline find their own replacements, and if they don't they must come to work (except for a documented emergency, illness, etc.). That they can do.

But if you put your request in before the deadline and it isn't conflicting with another nurse's time off request (first come, first served is the rule), they have no reason to deny you time off... none.

These things are covered by labor law. Contact the Wage and Hour Division of the Department of Labor, and tell them about what's happening. Don't do what employers expect us to do, and don't be what they expect us to be: :bowingpur

[tishirajan]

That is just lame. It's not like you have enough time to do what you already have to do, let alone do the staffing and admins job as well. That is just lazy on their part to drop the ball in your lap. Good luck and let us know what happens. I'm going to go fume now :angryfire

[lindarn]

Thanks for your responses everybody.

Apparently the staffing office will still attempt to find coverage for our vacations - I just called them. However, if they find it too difficult, then the onus is on the nurse to find coverage from other nurses who will not accrue overtime. I can understand vacation denials, ie; we already have four nurses in your dept taking vacation that week and their requests were put in ahead of yours but this is ridiculous. If the staffing office can't find "appropriate coverage" then how the heck am I supposed to? I work 16 hour baylor shifts, a coworker yesterday who wanted a Saturday off for her young sons birthday party can find one nurse willing to do 12 hours, but the facility will not let the fill-in nurse do the full 16 hours because it will put her into overtime - even though she is an on call nurse. So the vacationing nurse will have to work 4 hours before her sons birthday party. If the vacationing nurse was actually going on vacation she couldn't possibly come in and do the first four hours of the shift.

I'm currently navigating our states Department of Labor and Employment web page - looks like it will take me all day to find the information I need.

I think our facility will start to get a whole lot of sick call-ins because of this. I hope they have to use pool. Three nurses quit last week. Every time I come into work there is a new nasty rule and I'll spend this week sending resumes and calling the labor dept.

I posted mainly because I wondered if there was a facility out there that had gotten away with this sort of policy. Seems the respondents so far haven't had to deal with this. I am of course, in an "at-will" state and non-union because the one time the dietary dept tried to set one up half of them were fired.

Edited to add; We have not had low census. What we have had is a hare-brained management who thought it a great idea to build a $50m extension during a recession. Same management who is watching staff walk out the door every week to new employment still think because they are a non-profit that they are the greatest gig in town.

It never ceases to amaze me how easily employees are intimated by employers. It is your LEGAL RIGHT, to form a union, if you all desire to do so. How many of the individuals in the dietary department went to the Labor Board, and or called the EEOC, or called an Employment Lawyer to sue for wrongful discharge?

Hospitals get away with this behavior because employees let them. Case Closed. JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

[misplaced1]

I am not a nurse yet but in my old job I went to the EEOC and they explained to me that they were not there to protect me or the other employees but to protect the employer from litigation (i.e., being charged with unfair hiring practices). So basically they were there to know the regs to allow them to protect the employers a$$. From what I see there is no one around to protect the employees a$$ anywhere. I really wish I was born in Europe sometimes. Moving there is n't even any good because they protect their countrymen's jobs enough that I would never get a job!

[kcochrane]

They cannot prevent you from taking vacation if indeed that will mean you losing days at the end of the year. A nice anonymous call to the labor board should help.

A little planning on the part of the employer can help this. Our vacation request slips come out every 6 months. You can request whatever vacation you want at the time. If the floor cannot be staffed appropiately, senority takes over. But senority only works 3 times. And senority cannot be used to change vacation and bump someone else once the slips are turned in. At that point it is up to the nurse manager to determine where they are conflicts and deal with them.

Now if we need time off that is not covered by the vacation slips, we do need to get a replacement, per diem or an even exchange. They do not allow someone to work overtime for unplanned days off. If it is an emergency the DON can override that and has (i.e. court date, family emergency).

[Batman24]

If you are in a union now is a good time for all of you to call your rep. If you aren't I would first call the Department of Labor and see what they can provide you in writing. I would also make a formal complaint with them and have all the others you work with do the same. Pronto.

This is totally on your employer. Bottom line is they are acting in an illegal fashion and bullying all of you. This works great for them...not covering your shifts AND not paying you for time accrued. They are banking on all of you being too timid and too scared to defend yourselves and take action and it would be a cold day in hell before I would let that happen.

Call Department of Labor and pass the word for others to do the same. They won't take kindly to this behavior and bullying. Do it today.

[LLLLiiiFFEsaveer]

Where I work the nurses make up their own schedules allready... We voted and changed to this policy about two years ago, and we really like having control over this task. We have not had any trouble setting up our advanced vacation requests. It is also very simple to request a paid day off here and there too. We all know that departmental needs take priority, and make sure that we have the staff to cover our requested days off...

With this model, you do not even really need to request days off to get a vacation. I mean every other week I could have an eight day break from my job to go where I want and use as I see fit if I wanted. Plus, could easily put in an AVR request too, so long as the place is staffed... What is the big deal with that?

How many of you work where the nurses decided to proactively take charge of their own schedules? We really like it, and understand the rules, seeing as we made the rules.

[shiccy]

and yet....while you surely can say no, they surely can give you some consequences...so, who can you go to, in your organization, to talk about this (and locally, outside the organization)?

Talk union and see what happens *ducks*

I kid, I kid.... if you don't have one already, you are very likely to get canned. HOWEVER, I agree that this is an administrative duty, and if they don't feel that it's necessary to do their duties properly, then demand that you schedule yourself to how you see fit. If they can't do their job wholly, then you'll just have to do it for them!

That way give yourselves bomb schedules, and don't worry about their BS. I'm sure this whole thing is b/c they are scrounging for $$, but that's no excuse to effectively deny you your earned time off. I would look through your contract, if you can find it, and see what it says. That may be your saving grace. In most states you must sign that a change in that agreement has been made and that you're aware of it. If all else fails, and nobody will listen, then you can get your local or state employment agency on their butts and have them perform an anonymous investigation.