Using Your Nursing Credentials to Validate Anti-Vaxxer Theories

[Helen Crump]

As nurses we are supposed to understand and follow science. Yet all over the country nurses are using their background to validate crackpot theories about Covid and the vaccine. Should there be consequences for leading an effort to hurt the public health? After all, it violates basic nursing ethics in particular, do no harm. Should boards of nurses sanction these people or should the ANA or other associations put out a statement saying these folk don't represent us?

[BostonFNP, APRN]

26 minutes ago, Jeckrn1 said:

Why is it that everyone including physicians are called misguided if the do not follow the government narrative and look at all the data and come up with their on conclusion. If I guessed I would say 75-80% of the surgeons & doctors I work with say that the mask mandates do not work and they are not too sure about the vaccines. 

It is not a government narrative. It’s a science narrative that the government is following.  
 

Post a study that shows masks don’t slow the spread of covid. 

[Guest219794]

8 minutes ago, BostonFNP said:

It is not a government narrative. It’s a science narrative that the government is following.  
 

Post a study that shows masks don’t slow the spread of covid. 

A pointless endeavor.  Nobody with any degree of credibility is claiming that all things being equal, masks don't stop the spread of a virus.  Two identical indoor events- one with, the other without masks.  Even the most far out posters on this forum aren't claiming that.  They might sidestep the issue, but no way anybody who passed NCLEX is that clueless.

It is an embarrassment to the profession that nurses are debating the efficacy of masks.  

[toomuchbaloney]

2 minutes ago, hherrn said:

A pointless endeavor.  Nobody with any degree of credibility is claiming that all things being equal, masks don't stop the spread of a virus.  Two identical indoor events- one with, the other without masks.  Even the most far out posters on this forum aren't claiming that.  They might sidestep the issue, but no way anybody who passed NCLEX is that clueless.

It is an embarrassment to the profession that nurses are debating the efficacy of masks.  

Or that they at debating the importance of vaccination...embarrassing 

[JKL33]

On 9/15/2021 at 7:00 PM, nursej22 said:

I actually looked to see when Dr. Fauci said this. It was in March 2020, before we really knew that much about transmission, and he was trying to preserve masks for HCPs, as evidenced by what he said later in this interview: 

" I’m not against it (meaning wearing masks). If you want to do it, that’s fine."

"LaPook (the interviewer): But it can lead to a shortage of masks?"

"Fauci: Exactly, that’s the point. It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it."

Sorry for the backtrack, here.

We do need to elevate our expectations and apply them much more evenly than we typically do as a society.

In my opinion random comments from various public figures along the lines that masks don't help, or you (the general public) don't need masks were a major wrong move.

It disappoints me that intelligent people refuse to put two and two together on this. If people operate from a paradigm that everybody else is soooo stupid, they are some kind of degenerates who can't be trusted with sciencey information, then they should expect to fall into a hole that they can't climb out of just because there's a pandemic.

"My reasons are good so I'm just going to lie to people" doesn't work. Even people who lack knowledge can figure out hautiness and disrespect. This is readily observable.

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

 

"My reasons are good so I'm just going to lie to people" doesn't work. Even people who lack knowledge can figure out hautiness and disrespect. This is readily observable.

Do you think that it's also readily observable that large numbed of people are also completely taken in by lies of hubris and selfish intent? I do.  I think that there's evidence that a large section of the population is unable to discern hautiness and disrespect for themselves, at this moment in time.  

[JKL33]

6 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Do you think that it's also readily observable that large numbed of people are also completely taken in by lies of hubris and selfish intent? I do. 

Generally, yes I do think that is observable.

 

6 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I think that there's evidence that a large section of the population is unable to discern hautiness and disrespect for themselves, at this moment in time.  

 

My post was about what no one wants to talk about. Which is that we have a problem where we want to maintain our great disdain for people and then expect them to believe we are concerned about their interests or expect them to care about our interests enough to ever work together on something. It doesn't work to treat patients that way and as we are finally seeing it doesn't work to treat nurses and other healthcare workers that way, and it doesn't work when it becomes a narrative that public officials and highly intelligent segments of society feel free to twit or tweet or make public insinuations about (how stupid everyone else is; how stupid their opponents are). People don't like it; they reject it. I see this as being pretty easily observable.

 

[jive turkey]

12 minutes ago, JKL33 said:

Generally, yes I do think that is observable.

 

 

My post was about what no one wants to talk about. Which is that we have a problem where we want to maintain our great disdain for people and then expect them to believe we are concerned about their interests or expect them to care about our interests enough to ever work together on something. It doesn't work to treat patients that way and as we are finally seeing it doesn't work to treat nurses and other healthcare workers that way, and it doesn't work when it becomes a narrative that public officials and highly intelligent segments of society feel free to twit or tweet or make public insinuations about (how stupid everyone else is; how stupid their opponents are). People don't like it; they reject it. I see this as being pretty easily observable.

 

Thank you! It makes it clear and obvious when someone is on a mission for self empowerment vs actually solving the problem. 

[toomuchbaloney]

19 minutes ago, JKL33 said:

Generally, yes I do think that is observable.

 

 

My post was about what no one wants to talk about. Which is that we have a problem where we want to maintain our great disdain for people and then expect them to believe we are concerned about their interests or expect them to care about our interests enough to ever work together on something. It doesn't work to treat patients that way and as we are finally seeing it doesn't work to treat nurses and other healthcare workers that way, and it doesn't work when it becomes a narrative that public officials and highly intelligent segments of society feel free to twit or tweet or make public insinuations about (how stupid everyone else is; how stupid their opponents are). People don't like it; they reject it. I see this as being pretty easily observable.

 

Who is doing that?  Who is making public insinuations about stupidity? I have a Twitter account but I don't frequent or follow anyone.  Could you link to what you find upsetting?

It has always been a problem that individual prejudice can and shows negatively influence the care that is offered or delivered in health care settings.  There is data to evidence the poorer outcomes are associated with prejudiced care.  Black American women in particular suffer a health environment that promises that the practitioners care about them but the evidence says otherwise. 

[Helen Crump]

On 9/17/2021 at 8:38 AM, Jeckrn1 said:

Why is it that everyone including physicians are called misguided if the do not follow the government narrative and look at all the data and come up with their on conclusion. If I guessed I would say 75-80% of the surgeons & doctors I work with say that the mask mandates do not work and they are not too sure about the vaccines. 

There used to be this thing called the Scientific Method. They used to teach it to physicians and nurses- apparently not anymore. Basically, the way it works is that you come up with a hypothesis, and then you set out to prove or disprove this hypothesis. You do this by using a set of established principles to test the theory and you gather the evidence and once you have the evidence, you evaluate it using other scientific principles. This was done so that opinions can be removed from the process. 

Now, a method is only as good as the people using it, so in science, other scientists will take your hypothesis and using the scientific method and test it themselves. So will other scientists and if they all get similar results, that is how we know the data is reliable. That's the way it's done. 

So WHY would anyone speculate that "80% of the physicians and surgeons I know would agree they mask mandates don't work and they are not too sure about the vaccines" as some sort of proof of the unreliability of something that has already been tested by the scientific method? Don't worry, I am not just picking on you. That is the point of this post, there are lots of nurses and doctors doing this. That there are nurses and physicians signing on to this, people who should know better, is extremely baffling. I don't know if it is an indictment of our education or a testament to the strength of politics to cause us to ignore what we already know (or should know).

[Jeckrn1, ADN, BSN]

What is not being taught anymore is how to think, instead what is being taught is what to think and do not question the narrative. 

Could it the physicians have read many articles over the years then taking this knowledge to come to their conclusions?  

What do the studies say about cloth or surgical mask for a airborne virus?  Last I read they do not work and only a N-95 mask work. If there are studies could you please place a link so I can read them. 

There is a meme out there about a man peeing and showing how pants prevent you from getting wet. Let’s now make that meme for an airborne virus

Naked man drops a duce, unmasked man smells the duce. 
Dressed man drops a duce in his pants, unmasked man still smells the duce. 
Dressed man drops a duce in his pants, masked man still smells the duce. 

When you talk about the vaccines there are no long term studies to show if they have long term effect or not.  This means the hypothesis has not been able to be reproduced, I am not saying it won’t but it is still too early for them. 

[toomuchbaloney]

46 minutes ago, Jeckrn1 said:

What do the studies say about cloth or surgical mask for a airborne virus?  Last I read they do not work and only a N-95 mask work. If there are studies could you please place a link so I can read them. 

MMWRMMWR

JAMAJAMA

None of this is new information.  Why are you still uncertain about masks more than a year into a pandemic with a virus spread by respiratory droplets? 

 

 

 

 

[Wuzzie]

2 hours ago, Jeckrn1 said:

Last I read they do not work and only a N-95 mask work.

What exactly are your parameters for "working"?