Our facility was asked to host a group of soon to be graduated nursing students.
The students are taking a class in nursing leadership so they were assigned to spend the day with the nursing department's leadership. The students were provided a breakfast reception and were allowed to shadow the departments nursing managers. The chief of nursing gave a talk to the students to welcome them to the profession.
The students did not come prepared to meet potential hiring managers. Unprofessional clothes/demeanor, playing with cell phones/texting, asking about vacant positions etc.
I was asked to tour them around the facility so that they understand the complexities of the hospital. I had the opportunity to talk with them as we walked through the facility.
I was shocked how many of them were second degree nursing students had completed graduate school prior to entering nursing school. I was troubled as they did not understand that nursing positions for new grads are very difficult to obtain. They were all under the impression that if they had a BSN, the jobs they wishes for would be there for them.
I was taken aback at how these soon to be graduates did not understand what nursing was about and what the role of the nurse is.
One of the students has a degree in English and a graduate degree in Communications. She stated that she was a Journalist and a freelance writer but she could not get work so she entered nursing so that she could become a medical writer.
Another student stated that he had an undergraduate degree in Public Policy and a Law degree but could not obtain work so he went into nursing to develop knowledge about healthcare. He saw himself a the hospital's attorney.
Three other students had undergrad degrees in Business but did not find work in their field so they took nursing hoping to be a hospital manager. The other students in the group were less vocal about their backgrounds and future plans. I know it is more common today to see second career nurses but my concern is that these students really do not understand what nursing is all about.
I really could not see any of these students working as a staff nurse. Nursing is hard work and you are standing on your feet for 12-13 hours trying to complete your assigned tasks.
I know that times are tough for everywhere but I wish that the nursing schools would be more honest to the students about what nurses do. If this students came into nursing with a desire to work as a nurse, I would be excited. What I sense is that these students tried something else, did not succeed and now see nursing as a quick way to a check. Making the situation more difficult is the fact that in our area (NYC) clinical jobs are few and that management jobs are very hard to attain.
Who put the idea into our nursing student/attorney head that he will walk out of school and obtain a legal job in the hospital because he has a nursing degree? Who told the writer that a nursing degree would now make her a medical writer after she failed to succeed in her previous attempts at being a writer/journalist?
I feel bad because the school they go to charges over 80K for a 15 month Accelerated BSN. That is a lot of money and these students have to put out. You would have thought they would have researched nursing before they signed up....I am shocked at how misguided these students are.
To sum up, I smiled as they spoke and gently told them that nursing positions today are competitive especially in NYC as their is presently a surplus of nurses. Do you think I did the right thing or should I have addressed their unrealistic expectations?
It's simple. We do so in the hope that others who contemplating making life changing decisions based on unrealistic expectations may learn. Those of us who have been in health care a long time are in a position to know how unrealistic the expectation expressed in the OP are.
I didn't notice any judging going on in this discussion so far.
You and others may have been at this a long time. And yes, they may have unrealistic expectations. Or they may not. My point is, how about we just let them be, and so long as they aren't directly involved with patients, why do we care why they did this, that, or whatever? They're spending their own money, they're the ones who have to deal with the consequences.
I think that they should act and dress professionally while they're in the hospital, sure, but let them act arrogant. Sooner or later, they'll probably get put in their place.
I don't think anyone should tell students they can't go on to be CRNAs or any APN. Of course they can, if they work hard enough.
But I don't see what's wrong with telling the ones who are clueless, arrogant and rude what's what.
When a new grad nurse starts a job on the floor full of disdain and lets it be known to all that they're just there to fufill their CRNA requirements, they need to be taken down a peg.
With that said, most of the nurses I know who are working toward some sort of advanced practice goal do not fit the "rude and clueless" category. They are humble and hard working and will likely reach their goal one day.
The annoying, rude, snobby ones rarely make it through nursing school.
This is absolutely absurd! Don't you think people with more education wanting to be nurses is a good thing? More educated workforce= better nursing care. Only in this profession does it seem like people bash someone for seeking higher education. It is ridiculous! Who says these second career changers aren't elated to be bedside nurses?You need to stop assuming and conjuring up blanket assumptions for an entire population of people, it is not only wrong but it is false! Whose to say that these second career changers won't want to be a bedside nurse for the long haul?... And if they don't, what is it to you? Many nurses are seeking higher education as a means to get out of bedside nursing and into another nurse role. What is the harm in that? I just don't see it. Please show me statistical evidence that people with ADNs stay in the bedside longer than people with BSNs...And if that is even true, think about all the reasons that may be true. Time, expense, desire, etc.
Like this post and delighted that someone knows how to spell "absurd" correctly. Don't understand how people are allowed to graduate from college with such poor writing skills. But we also have some of the brightest and generous people on AN - just need more who can write coherently.
Some of the statements in this thread make my blood boil. I am a second degree nurse (formerly a teacher), who had a very successful career prior to deciding to go back to nursing school. I repeat, some of us did not go to nursing school because we couldn't find work in our initial chosen fields-contrary to public opinion or what is being reported as truth on this thread.
Thinking back on my cohort, we had extremely successful professionals who decided because of personal reasons (sick children/parents) that they wanted to be nurses because of the stellar care their families received by nurses. I completed a ABSN degree and found a job shortly after graduating in a NICU. No,I wasn't disillusioned and thought I would get an ICU position immediately after nursing school, but I worked my tail off, earned good grades, became a nurse tech, was heavily involved in my school and landed a pretty good preceptorship.
What I choose to do with my money, is up to me! Suggesting that second degree students are taking out excessive amounts of loans to fund their education is false in many many cases.There is a cap on how much undergraduate student loans one can receive so people can't take out unlimited amounts of loans-- a concept I believe is fair.
People equating the influx of nurses to second degree graduates is completely absurd. So is suggesting that second degree students are the only ones that are looking at a staff RN position as a stepping stone. Most GNs use staff nursing positions as a stepping stone in one way or another, moving to another speciality, to management, leadership, NP roles, etc. This is not uncommon for any GN/RN. To the OP maybe the person who suggested that some day they would want to merge their degrees as a hospital attorney was simply suggesting that in the future that would be something of interest to them. Maybe they were not assuming that upon graduating with a BSN that a hospital would actually deem them qualified to be a hospital attorney. I know that I merge my two careers all the time-- I am constantly teaching at my job which fulfills me...maybe the lawyer turned nurse wants to do the same? Who are we to judge?
@Zeus&Lincoln,I apologize for my earlier comment; I was wrong. Thanks for the reformatting:)
Like many of us Crusty Old Bats, I'm sure, I have no problem with nurses who want to step away from the bedside in order to become leaders in nursing. The difficulty I have is with those who want to assume positions of leadership in nursing without ever having BEEN at the bedside.
While there is some merit to this, you don't ALWAYS have to have been at bedside to excel in leadership positions. There are quite some different criteria to that.
I have no trouble if students have unrealistic expectations; many young people do think this way until they gain some life experience. People adjust their goals and plans as needed. Most people turn out just fine no matter how humble or grandiose their plans were.
I do find disturbing the sinking in respect for bedside nursing. I had a new nurse from a highly respected nursing school tell me that students at her school were really really encouraged to go back to school for MSN, NP or CRNA. The culture there had a disdain for bedside nursing and the teaching there did nothing to discourage this.
I keep thinking about this post and how this person, in their professional capacity, found it necessary to come online and slag on these nursing students for lacking professionalism and to out the place they attend. I mean, the world is a very small place EVEN IN NYC and I bet based on this person's posting history I could guess where they recruit--chances are, she will encounter these people again, not necessarily at her facility but perhaps another. Maybe think about the name you're making for yourself every time you post one of these threads disparaging new grads? If you think that one of the people that attended this hasn't read this thread, trust me, they will at some point - this is a widely read website among nursing students and that school has a large student body. I encounter their graduates frequently, and at several different hospitals, so they are getting jobs, despite this apparent unprofessional attitude the poster believes they possess. And these constant negative posts could come back to haunt you someday--just like those signs in the hospital say, people may not always remember you, but they will remember how you made them feel. These people's dreams and ambitions - they do not affect your life at all. They will try, fail, struggle - just like everyone else because that's sometimes just how life is and that's how we grow.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
You and others may have been at this a long time. And yes, they may have unrealistic expectations. Or they may not. My point is, how about we just let them be, and so long as they aren't directly involved with patients, why do we care why they did this, that, or whatever? They're spending their own money, they're the ones who have to deal with the consequences
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I would have no problem letting them be _IF_ they did not behave as described in the OP in our workplaces. When they come to our places of work and behave like that then letting them be isn't going to fly. My hospital has experience with DE MSN grads who acted similarly. Constant griping about how unfair it is they only got staff nurse positions when they have several degrees, including an MSN. Condescending treatment of their coworkers who actually take care of patients and get their hands dirty. Complaining that the superbly trained and experienced ICU nurse with "only" a diploma isn't appropriate to be precepting a masters prepared new grad. Now DE MSN grads are no longer considered for employment as new grads.
Specializes in Emergency Department; Neonatal ICU.
My son is studying aerospace engineering and wants nothing more than to be an astronaut. He has had lasik surgery already, at age 20, and blew out his knee playing rugby. I doubt he's going to pass a NASA physical. Are we supposed to tell him to hang it up and be a plumber instead because his dreams are "unrealistic?" Why should we be spending a zillion dollars a year for him to go to Cal Tech if he can't go to the Space Station? By some people's logic he should have just gone to a community college, right? He may or may not ever live on the Internat'l Space Station, but he may build the next shuttle that goes there. I think that's a pretty good 2nd place finish.
I don't grasp the notion of being offended by ambitious students. Who would even think of trying to discourage them just because you think their aspirations are "unrealistic?" That is so petty and small, I can't even imagine why one would consider trying to "set them straight." The world is what it is, and very few of us are going to grow up and be Paul Farmer or Marie Curie, but if we didn't think we could do anything, no one would try and then nothing great would ever get accomplished. Stop raining on other people's parades people. Give them the tour; show them the cafeteria, the john, the coat closet, keep your mouth shut and let them live their dream. Keep your pessimism to yourself. Good grief.
Love this post. My almost 8 year old son told me recently that he wants to be an actor. He told me over dinner one night. Over the next couple of days, he repeated this multiple times with the caveat that he wants to star in zombie movies. I told him that generally, actors start in community theatre and I signed him up for a semester long acting class at our local community arts center starting in January. We'll see how it goes...
I would have no problem letting them be _IF_ they did not behave as described in the OP in our workplaces. When they come to our places of work and behave like that then letting them be isn't going to fly. My hospital has experience with DE MSN grads who acted similarly. Constant griping about how unfair it is they only got staff nurse positions when they have several degrees, including an MSN. Condescending treatment of their coworkers who actually take care of patients and get their hands dirty. Complaining that the superbly trained and experienced ICU nurse with "only" a diploma isn't appropriate to be precepting a masters prepared new grad. Now DE MSN grads are no longer considered for employment as new grads.
We just hired a new grad who'd fit this description perfectly. Somewhere, somehow, this new nurse got it in their head that being a NURSE was superior to being a CNA. Nurses only observed body flds. They didn't clean them up. Their BSN insulated them against doing the work of a CNA, or a nurse with an associates degree.
We have to work with this person who WILL NOT answer a light, or change a bed. Even when there aren't CNAs scheduled.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I don't grasp the notion of being offended by ambitious students.
Me either! However I think if what you are observing in this discussion as being offended by ambitious students then you have misunderstood what has been written.
Who would even think of trying to discourage them just because you think their aspirations are "unrealistic?"
Once again if that is what you have perceived is going on you are mistaken. Nobody wants to discourage them. It is their behavior that is being criticized, not their goals.
liketheairport
97 Posts
You and others may have been at this a long time. And yes, they may have unrealistic expectations. Or they may not. My point is, how about we just let them be, and so long as they aren't directly involved with patients, why do we care why they did this, that, or whatever? They're spending their own money, they're the ones who have to deal with the consequences.
I think that they should act and dress professionally while they're in the hospital, sure, but let them act arrogant. Sooner or later, they'll probably get put in their place.