Our facility was asked to host a group of soon to be graduated nursing students.
The students are taking a class in nursing leadership so they were assigned to spend the day with the nursing department's leadership. The students were provided a breakfast reception and were allowed to shadow the departments nursing managers. The chief of nursing gave a talk to the students to welcome them to the profession.
The students did not come prepared to meet potential hiring managers. Unprofessional clothes/demeanor, playing with cell phones/texting, asking about vacant positions etc.
I was asked to tour them around the facility so that they understand the complexities of the hospital. I had the opportunity to talk with them as we walked through the facility.
I was shocked how many of them were second degree nursing students had completed graduate school prior to entering nursing school. I was troubled as they did not understand that nursing positions for new grads are very difficult to obtain. They were all under the impression that if they had a BSN, the jobs they wishes for would be there for them.
I was taken aback at how these soon to be graduates did not understand what nursing was about and what the role of the nurse is.
One of the students has a degree in English and a graduate degree in Communications. She stated that she was a Journalist and a freelance writer but she could not get work so she entered nursing so that she could become a medical writer.
Another student stated that he had an undergraduate degree in Public Policy and a Law degree but could not obtain work so he went into nursing to develop knowledge about healthcare. He saw himself a the hospital's attorney.
Three other students had undergrad degrees in Business but did not find work in their field so they took nursing hoping to be a hospital manager. The other students in the group were less vocal about their backgrounds and future plans. I know it is more common today to see second career nurses but my concern is that these students really do not understand what nursing is all about.
I really could not see any of these students working as a staff nurse. Nursing is hard work and you are standing on your feet for 12-13 hours trying to complete your assigned tasks.
I know that times are tough for everywhere but I wish that the nursing schools would be more honest to the students about what nurses do. If this students came into nursing with a desire to work as a nurse, I would be excited. What I sense is that these students tried something else, did not succeed and now see nursing as a quick way to a check. Making the situation more difficult is the fact that in our area (NYC) clinical jobs are few and that management jobs are very hard to attain.
Who put the idea into our nursing student/attorney head that he will walk out of school and obtain a legal job in the hospital because he has a nursing degree? Who told the writer that a nursing degree would now make her a medical writer after she failed to succeed in her previous attempts at being a writer/journalist?
I feel bad because the school they go to charges over 80K for a 15 month Accelerated BSN. That is a lot of money and these students have to put out. You would have thought they would have researched nursing before they signed up....I am shocked at how misguided these students are.
To sum up, I smiled as they spoke and gently told them that nursing positions today are competitive especially in NYC as their is presently a surplus of nurses. Do you think I did the right thing or should I have addressed their unrealistic expectations?
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Love this post. My almost 8 year old son told me recently that he wants to be an actor. He told me over dinner one night. Over the next couple of days, he repeated this multiple times with the caveat that he wants to star in zombie movies. I told him that generally, actors start in community theatre and I signed him up for a semester long acting class at our local community arts center starting in January. We'll see how it goes...
Good for him and you! However your example is in no way analogous to this discussion.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Love this post. My almost 8 year old son told me recently that he wants to be an actor. He told me over dinner one night. Over the next couple of days, he repeated this multiple times with the caveat that he wants to star in zombie movies. I told him that generally, actors start in community theatre and I signed him up for a semester long acting class at our local community arts center starting in January. We'll see how it goes...
What a great way to handle your son's stated ambition! Even if he never becomes an actor, he'll learn life lessons from his exposure to those acting classes.
Specializes in Emergency Department; Neonatal ICU.
What a great way to handle your son's stated ambition! Even if he never becomes an actor, he'll learn life lessons from his exposure to those acting classes.
Thank you for understanding my point that supporting people in their ambitions is a good thing which I respectfully believe is analogous to this discussion. Having said that, I also agree that the behavior of the students is reprehensible (cell phone use, unprofessional attire, etc.). Further, one shouldn't seek such support from a potential employer - they should show up, look professional, profusely thank their hosts for the opportunity and tell them they look forward to applying. In other words, hopefully if my son is someday interviewing at a NYC restaurant for a server job, he won't say he is only doing this until his big acting break
I guess some of these posts sting a little because I am a second career RN with a previous degree but I am nothing like those described (and I know these posts are not directed at me personally). I did not fail at my first job - I was actually quite successful and worked at a respected firm. I just became bored and (I know, roll your eyes - lol) "wanted to make a difference." I now work at the bedside and love it. I would not be where I am now if it wasn't for the warm, welcoming, very experienced RNs who guided me through my first couple of years. I owe them everything. I am in school for my MSN but not because I can't wait to get away from the bedside - I just want to have more of a role in diagnosing. I choose acute care because I want to stay in the hospital.
Sorry for the long post, guys, and I certainly didn't mean to hijack the thread.
Some of the statements in this thread make my blood boil. I am a second degree nurse (formerly a teacher), who had a very successful career prior to deciding to go back to nursing school. I repeat, some of us did not go to nursing school because we couldn't find work in our initial chosen fields-contrary to public opinion or what is being reported as truth on this thread.
Thinking back on my cohort, we had extremely successful professionals who decided because of personal reasons (sick children/parents) that they wanted to be nurses because of the stellar care their families received by nurses. I completed a ABSN degree and found a job shortly after graduating in a NICU. No,I wasn't disillusioned and thought I would get an ICU position immediately after nursing school, but I worked my tail off, earned good grades, became a nurse tech, was heavily involved in my school and landed a pretty good preceptorship.
What I choose to do with my money, is up to me! Suggesting that second degree students are taking out excessive amounts of loans to fund their education is false in many many cases.There is a cap on how much undergraduate student loans one can receive so people can't take out unlimited amounts of loans-- a concept I believe is fair.
People equating the influx of nurses to second degree graduates is completely absurd. So is suggesting that second degree students are the only ones that are looking at a staff RN position as a stepping stone. Most GNs use staff nursing positions as a stepping stone in one way or another, moving to another speciality, to management, leadership, NP roles, etc. This is not uncommon for any GN/RN. To the OP maybe the person who suggested that some day they would want to merge their degrees as a hospital attorney was simply suggesting that in the future that would be something of interest to them. Maybe they were not assuming that upon graduating with a BSN that a hospital would actually deem them qualified to be a hospital attorney. I know that I merge my two careers all the time-- I am constantly teaching at my job which fulfills me...maybe the lawyer turned nurse wants to do the same? Who are we to judge?
I AGREE 100% with you. If i could "like" your response a million times i would. I hate when people pass judgement and assume. I know many second degree students who were able to find work and connect previous degrees to further their career. Not everyone wants to be a floor nurse. Some people have the ambition to want more! Take medical school, not everyone is a Biology and Chem major and they still get accepted and are highly considered because they bring a new aspect to the field. One of the reasons i feel in love with nursing is because of the numerous specialties even ones that don't require bedside care. Great Response!
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
For me this is the bottom line. If you come to my work place and choose to spout off about unrealistic goals, express distain or a condescending attitude towards your coworkers/soon to be coworkers who take care of patients, or exhibit unprofessional behavior I will call you out on it. Worse for you, as an instructor of nurse residents in my hospital's nurse residency program, and preceptor to nursing students, I will recommend you not be offered a job. So far management has never chosen to disregard my recommendations.
Wanting to go to CRNA or NP school is not unrealistic. Spouting off about how you plan to accept some very high quality and expensive training and plan to leave the second you get accepted to grad school is rude and if I hear you I will not recommend you be offered a job. We have already had a problem with burning out our experienced nurse preceptors who don't want to precept people who have no intention of competing their contracts. Wanting to be in administration or management is not an unrealistic goal. Expecting to start off there in nursing is.
Acting better than your fellow nurses because of your degree/s will get you ridiculed. If you were that much better you would have been offered a position at a higher level of care already (happens sometimes). We thoroughly train and test our nurses. We know who actually is better by objective and subjective measurements.
New grads, regardless of their experience in other fields, or degrees held need to be professional and at least a little humble, at least they do if they want more experienced nurses to willingly share their knowledge with them.
That describes her to a T. Her plan is to get her BSN, get a job in Spokane (Where the only CRNA program is in Washington), then work, get experience, save money, and work on advancing.
She interviewed a CRNA for her career project last year. She is currently trying to set up a shadowing with that same fellow. She is a senior in High School and a straight A student, very goal oriented.
That's great. It's people like this, that I like seeing in nursing. Hey, bedside care is not for everyone. Just so a person understands that they may have to do at least their small share of it along the way to where they are headed. You want to be the type of nurse who can basically handle anything you come across - that's why you are made to do these things in the beginning.
I wonder what the OP would say about me. I'm a second career nurse, currently an LPN, working towards an ASN degree on top of my BFA in another field. I have been at my first job in an LTC facility for 14 months and expect to stay there until I graduate and possibly much longer. After graduation I plan to pursue a PhD in nursing research, jumping through any and all required "hoops" along the way. I have specific goals including an area of study. I'm passionate about wanting to add to the body of human knowledge, but I don't see myself ever moving away from patient care completely. I was successful in my first career. For years this little voice at the back of my head kept saying, "You would be more fulfilled as a nurse." For me, it's not about money. Would it be a waste of money for a hospital to train me to be a staff nurse?
Playing with a smartphone and not dressing professionally for a hospital tour are problems. That said, who are you to call someone else's expectations unrealistic? Why should anyone stay at the bedside longer than necessary if they really don't want to be there? What's wrong with wanting to become a medical writer or CRNA? When did ambition become a dirty word?
It really is a small world. You never know who you will encounter later on, or how they could help (or refuse to help) you.
The OP's post is geared at second degree BSN students acting unprofessional and having - according to her - unrealistic professional goals. However, one could just as much replace Second Degree BSN students with traditional BSN students, ASN students, LPN students and so on. Unprofessionalism is not limited to the DE MSN & Second degree BSN lot. I've seen a lot of texting, dressing down and poor presentation from various students, in various levels of both nursing education and other education programs.
I also see a lot of posts equating second degree BSN nurses and DE MSN nurses with poor work ethic and entitlement issues. Once again, one could just as much replace second degree BSN nurses and DE MSN nurses with ASN nurses, LPN nurses and CNA's. Just based on personal anecdotes - I've seen poor work ethic and entitlement issues across the spectrum.
There is also this idea that these more educated nurses seem to think they're somehow better than those with less education. I've also seen the reverse of this. As an attendee of a second degree BSN sprogram, we did a lot of clinicals at one of the local hospitals that was mostly staffed by ASN nurses from the community college. We went there happy to work with ANY nurses and learn. These nurses did not want to work with us, they would tell us how bad our school was (how their ASN program gave superior nursing education), how we would be terrible at patient care, that they never wanted us working on their family members and how they did not like graduates from our program working there. Some of our top students and those with hands on healthcare experience in another field (CNA, Paramedic, EMT) would come home in tears from these nurses.
However, even though my experience with some ASN nurses was not particularly awesome doesn't mean I'm going to let the negativity bias take over and paint all ASN nurses as rude, mean individuals. It means that I had a bad experience.
So what is my point? There is some bad behavior in nursing. There is bad behavior from nursing students. There is bad behavior from nurses. There is bad behavior across the spectrum of nursing. Just browsing this forum you'll see posts where CNA's bully RN's and won't help out. You'll see threads where RN's bully CNA's. You'll see threads where people complain about bad behavior from LPNS, ASN's, DE MSN's... and so on and so on. You'll see a lot of posts about the superiority of the certificate programs vs. the DE master's programs. How nurses are being turned out without skills at all levels. And it seems like everyone - from CNA to Physician would rather play on their smart phone than work.
There are also posts along the lines of "Why do nurses further their education?"... and so on. There is more than just "Those with high education are unprofessional and bully those with lower education and don't listen to their years of experience." There are also posts where those with high education state stuff like "Don't tell anyone you're a DE MSN graduate because the nurses will make your life hell".
Yes the field of nursing is experiencing growing pains as it tries to progress as a profession. I think just in general, as a lot we need to be a heck more tolerant of one another and realize that although we might all identify as "nurses", everyone's path through nursing- and through life - is different.
PMFB-RN, RN
5,351 Posts
Good for him and you! However your example is in no way analogous to this discussion.