transgender nurse (transvestite)

SnowymtnRN · Jan 11, 2004

Originally posted by 3rdShiftGuy
Thanks so much. I'm so glad I'm a nurse, because I've found a profession where for the most part I am accepted for the excellent nurse that I am. Nurses in general are very tolerant people. We have to be in order to be effective caregivers to a diverse population of patients don't you think?

I have a very healthy self-esteem today. I'm know I'm worthy of equality and I know that I'm a damn good nurse. I'd take excellent care of you SnowymtnRN regardless of who I sleep with. :)

VERY well said! I'm so happy that you've found peace, contentment and acceptance! The world is SLOWLY moving along!!!! Keep on keepin' on!!!

I do agree that we have to be very tolerant, this isn't an area of expertise that has any room for negativity or prejudice. That's why this entire post has thrown me so bad. I guess we scared Nursecathy off! :chuckle

kwagner_51 · Jan 11, 2004

Tweety,

I too am sorry you had to go through this. It saddens me that people do this in the name of Christianity. It is WRONG!!!! I am NOT that kind of Christian. And I sure am not/will not be that type of nurse!

Take care and God bless you with Hios grace and peace!

sanakruz, ADN · Jan 11, 2004

WOW, WHAT A THREAD ! :eek:

I do have an opinion about this potential student, But'll kept it to myself. :eek:

kmchugh · Jan 11, 2004

Originally posted by Erin RN
When I delivered my last child I had a nurse that was overly zealous in the religion dept..Now mind you, I am a spiritual person but I finally had enough and requested she be removed from the room..In the way that only preg woman in transitional labor could . She kept saying, "Lets pray for the baby" and taking my hands and praying..she would then mark on the strip where she had prayed for my child..

Another issue entirely. If I remember basic nursing classes, the nurse has the responsibility to accomodate the religious preferences of the patient. I must have missed the day when we were instructed on the patient's responsibility to accomodate the religious preferences of the nurse. I think an appropriate response to "let's pray for the baby" would have been "you better pray you can keep your job after today."

Kevin

ktwlpn, LPN · Jan 11, 2004

Originally posted by 3rdShiftGuy
I am out of the closet because it was in my lifetime that gay people were considered mentally ill. It was in my lifetime that gay people were gathered up in gay bars and thrown in jail. It was in my lifetime that tens of thousands of gay men died needlessly while a government did nothing and "Christians" called it just. I could go on and on.

It's through coming out and demanding equality and fairness that things have begun to change. I could not care less if you or anyone else is uncomfortable with that.

I've been beat up, spit upon, laughed at, preached to, and looked down upon and I'm not internalizing any of that and hiding whom I choose to love.

End of rant. :)

Great post-I admire your courage,Tweety:kiss Back to topic-I guess I just don't believe that sex or sexuality has anything to do with a nurses competency......We have debated this topic before-it does seem that patients have the right to refuse care from a nurse that makes them uncomfortable for whatever reason and we accomodate them (recent case in Philly-black nurse refused by patient's husband in l&d)) We have a duty to provide care to all without letting our personal prejudices and beliefs enter into the careplan....A transgendered (not transvestite-that's a different thread) person has to live a period of time as the sex they are going to become-and they undergo a great deal of pysch testing and counseling....I don't think they have to wear a scarlet "T" on their forehead....This person is entitled to privacy....If I am sick enough to need help with peri-care I don't care who helps me-a man or a woman-as long as it's a nurse or aide...

gypsyatheart · Jan 11, 2004

Originally posted by kmchugh
When I read the initial post, my thought was that this person was uncomfortable as they had been born, and were working towards correcting what they see as an error. However, as I read on, the first sentence above gave me serious pause.

As I understand it, a true transgender dresses as if they already were the gender to which they wanted to change. Someone who changes their gender appearance back and forth, as I understand it, is a whole new ball game.

In this case, the issue isn't whether I or anyone else feels comfortable with this person providing peri-care. The issue is one of mental and emotional stability. From what you describe, this person has some serious issues that need to be resolved before becoming a nurse. I would not care whether my nurse was transgender or not. I would seriously care if my nurse was emotionally unbalanced.

The stakes are too high, the risk is too great. I would want this person to be examined by a mental health professional before beginning nursing school, and I would want assurance from said professional that this person was stable enough to be entrusted with the care of a sick, vulnerable population. I certainly would not want this person anywhere near my enfeebled 84 year old mother. Would you?

Kevin McHugh (with flame suit on)

Haven't read through all these pages yet, but you absolutely hit the nail on the head!!! Mental stability is what I would be questioning.....

LydiaGreen · Jan 11, 2004

I do not question this person's "mental stability"... have they done anything to demonstrate that they are mentally unstable and may be a danger to others? Nope. The OP stated that she/he has never actually spoken to this student before. How does she know that the student dressed female one day and male the next? Obviously someone told this to the OP, but who? Another instructor as blatantly biased as she/he is? Other students who are threatened by anyone different from them? Who knows?

For the posters who think that the student should resolve this issue before attending nursing school, did you have children while you were in school? I have heard from instructors, classmates and clients that a woman should either have her kids after finishing her education and starting her career, or wait to pursue an education until they have started or graduated from high school. Guess I'm a deviant too, huh? Guess the same things were said about homosexual nursing students ten years ago. Guess the same things were said about any non-caucasian nursing student sixty years ago. Guess the same could be said for those going through a divorce... this list could go on and on and on based on any individual person's particular biases. I do not believe that any of them are deviants, nor do I believe that I am a deviant, nor do I believe that this student is a deviant.

To the original OP, this is a student, like any other student, and you should behave as an instructor towards this student, as you would with any other student. Part of nursing is challenging our beliefs and prejudices... maybe this student will teach the instructor a thing or two. At the very least, the student deserves the same opportunity as the other tuition paying students.

Where any of these "issues" are concerned... I frequently ask myself, "Does this negatively impact on my life, or the life of any of my family member's or friends?" If no, then it is NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!!

Please OP, don't judge a person that you have not met... give this person the same chance that you would every other student. It's not only the fair thing to do, it is the legal thing to do... if you don't set aside your prejudice, you may well be at the end of a lawsuit someday. And the use of the word "deviant" does have a negative connitation and would be construed as such by any equal rights attorney.

germain · Jan 12, 2004

OH boy, I have to be mentally stable to be a nurse? I'm screwed now, too bad I spent all that money on my education, since I have issues to deal with and all.

Seriously, this person is probably stronger than all of us- what courage to be who you are, knowing you will generate this kind of contorversy everywhere you go. I'd love to have a transgendered nurse- how great would that be? why should I be denied that?

ShelleyERgirl, LPN · Jan 12, 2004

Originally posted by kwagner_51
This is strictly my OPINION!! The Instructor does have rights. It could very well be against her religion. How can she justify, teacching someone whom she knows is living in sin? Doesn't that violate her beliefs?

Why must every one tell everything about themselves? When did it become appropriate to tell EVERYONE about their sexual orientation?? I have absolutely NO problem with people being homosexual, transgendered, transvestied, etc as long as they keep it to themselves!!

I don't tell anyone what my sex live is like because it is NONE of their business.

ISMT that when someone comes 'out of the closet' thatey are trying to draw attention to themselves, as if they are special humans. They are not special, but they are human!!

My daughter had a homosexual friend who insists that everybody cater to him, because he is different!! Unfortunately, this kid is also a liar and a thief!! I have told her that she can not judge all homosexuals by this one person. Not all homosexuals are liars and thieves. Just this one.

Would I have a problem with transgender or homosexual nurses? No, I don't think I would. A female doctor delivered my daughter and a Muslim Male doctor delivered all 3 of my boys!!

All I am asking is why must people outside the norms of society try to push their crap [whatever it is] down our throats?

I am a Christian and sexual conduct outside the realm of 'normal' as set up by God [to me] is wrong!! Yet no one thinks that Christians have rights. All I hear is I am homophobic, and all kinds of hate spews out of people's mouths when I mention that I am a Christian.

Am I not being discriminated against, because I believe in Someone higher that me?

I do not mean any insults. I am just stating my opinion!! I have my flame suit on.

Karen, I just had to reply to your post and while I may not flame you, prepare to be singed;) I am also a Christian and I also have two very good friends who just happen to be lesbians. I love them dearly and can't imagine my life without their friendship. Do I agree with their lifestyle? Not at all, but have you ever heard the expression, "love the sinner, hate the sin"? It is not my place to judge them but Gods, all I can do as their friend is try to set a good example for them as a Christian.

For the transgender student, I say let them try their best as student and if they fail out, let it be on the basis of their grades, NOT the size of their adam's apple.

LilRedRN1973 · Jan 12, 2004

RNntraining1973,I had the same thing happen to me. Dated a guy in high school for 2 years.Everyone used to tell me he wasn't straight,but I never saw it.He moved to Las Vegas and found me on the internet years later.He informed me he is indeed gay and has been happy in a relationship for years.He also told me I helped to make him that way,whatever that was supposed to mean.I was born in 1973.Wierd coincidence

Did you live in Texas, by chance?? I think that would be too strange if it ended up being the same guy....teehee!!:roll

nursecathy · Jan 12, 2004

WoW!! I knew this would get attention but I am really amazed at how much. I am the original poster. I confess. I needed to get other nurses thoughts and boy I did. To clarify a few things. first of all, I am not a bigot. I am very kind and caring to people. I have helped students (I have been teaching for about 18 months. Nursing 30+ Yrs) to overcome lots of difficulties. I appreciate your being candid. I confess, I was taken aback when I found out this student wanted to be a nurse. I had already heard a lot of talk about this person from my other students. Last year he dressed male or female from one time to another. Since deciding on nursing, he is strictly dressing female. I am in the deep south and I know what some of the locals will do to this student. We have a lot of gay employees in our hospital. Male and female. They are well accepted. This person has obvious male facial hair, otherwise doesn't look too male-ish. I do not and this is my personal opinion believe in people being born transgendered unless they have both types of sex organs. I don't believe God makes mistakes. I believe that being Gay is a sin. That is my religious belief and I am entitled to it. A lot of my students have lifestyles that I would not choose but I do not let that affect my teaching. I am a very good nursing instructor, believe it or not and my students are crazy about me! I pass students based on grades and clinical performance. As you can see from the stir this brought about on this board, it is a hot issue. It will cause a great stir in our nursing program and we need nurses so badly. The hospital administration is not going to like this issue. They know about it and they don't like it. Right or wrong, this is fact. If this person had kept his sexual issues personal, we wouldnt be dealing with this. He made it apparent to all his previous classes and instructors. I don't go into class and tell my instructors to call me Cathy one day and Keith the next. He did. He will have to committ to be in my class. Male or female and stick to it!The fact is, this is a small town and everybody already knows. That makes it a public issue. I don't ask my students if they are gay or straight. I don't care. I care if they do drugs or have a history of violance and I cant keep them out either. I teach these students from start to finish. I progress through the program with them. We are a diverse population with many values and beliefs. I admit I am not comfortable with cross dressers but I would never be cruel to them or anyone else. I have nursed all kinds of people and my patients always loved me for the most part. It is like I tell my students. People never know you by the written word without the non-verbal and verbal clues. God bless you all! YOu have given me a lot of insight and now I am REALLY afraid of what might happen this next year!!!!

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jan 12, 2004

Originally posted by nursecathy
WoW!! I knew this would get attention but I am really amazed at how much. I am the original poster. I confess. I needed to get other nurses thoughts and boy I did. To clarify a few things. first of all, I am not a bigot. I am very kind and caring to people. I have helped students (I have been teaching for about 18 months. Nursing 30+ Yrs) to overcome lots of difficulties. I appreciate your being candid. I confess, I was taken aback when I found out this student wanted to be a nurse. I had already heard a lot of talk about this person from my other students. Last year he dressed male or female from one time to another. Since deciding on nursing, he is strictly dressing female. I am in the deep south and I know what some of the locals will do to this student. We have a lot of gay employees in our hospital. Male and female. They are well accepted. This person has obvious male facial hair, otherwise doesn't look too male-ish. I do not and this is my personal opinion believe in people being born transgendered unless they have both types of sex organs. I don't believe God makes mistakes. I believe that being Gay is a sin. That is my religious belief and I am entitled to it. A lot of my students have lifestyles that I would not choose but I do not let that affect my teaching. I am a very good nursing instructor, believe it or not and my students are crazy about me! I pass students based on grades and clinical performance. As you can see from the stir this brought about on this board, it is a hot issue. It will cause a great stir in our nursing program and we need nurses so badly. The hospital administration is not going to like this issue. They know about it and they don't like it. Right or wrong, this is fact. If this person had kept his sexual issues personal, we wouldnt be dealing with this. He made it apparent to all his previous classes and instructors. I don't go into class and tell my instructors to call me Cathy one day and Keith the next. He did. He will have to committ to be in my class. Male or female and stick to it!The fact is, this is a small town and everybody already knows. That makes it a public issue. I don't ask my students if they are gay or straight. I don't care. I care if they do drugs or have a history of violance and I cant keep them out either. I teach these students from start to finish. I progress through the program with them. We are a diverse population with many values and beliefs. I admit I am not comfortable with cross dressers but I would never be cruel to them or anyone else. I have nursed all kinds of people and my patients always loved me for the most part. It is like I tell my students. People never know you by the written word without the non-verbal and verbal clues. God bless you all! YOu have given me a lot of insight and now I am REALLY afraid of what might happen this next year!!!!

Cathy, I gave my opinion above why it's important not to as you say "keep sexual issues personal", so I won't repeat myself. I'll also respect your religious beliefs. I can even respect your expectations that he stay in the clothes of one gender or another even though that's obviously not how he lives his life.

Sounds to me like you are going into it with an open mind, that you know it's going to be rough, and the chances of quiet sucess of this student are not good. As you say, if you keep the focus on education it will be o.k.

I still say that most of the problems that this student faces isn't going to come from within, but from without. It's going to be hard to get past the harsh judgements of fellow students, instructors, patients, nurses on the floor for her to succeed. I appreciate that at least this student has the chance.