transgender nurse (transvestite)

TCJan · Jan 12, 2004

The United States is a melting pot.

Universities like diversity.

We can't discriminate. I've never seen an animal act like

he/she wasn't what he was born as. But.............

I've seen men act and look like woman, I've seen woman act and

look like men. So, what.

I"ve worked with gay men nurses and I"ve worked with gay woman nurses. I"ve taken care of transgender patients.

Work is work......nursing is nursing.......for some its a role and for some its a job, and for some its what they like to do.

I worked in a nusing home where all the social workers and administration and office help and even a few nurses, brought their dogs into work with them . One male nurse even let his dog be by his side while he passed meds. Some patients like the dogs , some didn't, I didn't particularly like the stinky dogs under my feet while I charted, but that's my preference...I don't want a dog in my house, or bed, some people sleep with their dogs

It's getting very poplular now days , to have animals in nursing homes......where I worked, two male patients in one room, one had a dog and the other didn't. One was a Paraphelgic and had a huge skin graft on his sacrum which we were dressing BID. He decided after a few weeks that having a dog in the room was not a good idea for his wound healing.........he asked administration to change the guy's room , because of the dog........they did......so everyone gets accomodated in some way, if they have a problem with something. Not sure if anyone followed up on the hurt feelings of the dog owner.........but I'm sure he had some and I'm sure he also understood.......but abnormality brings a certain amount of acceptance and then again it wiill bring a certain amount of rejection. So, that's life.

We are all just human , some don't like being human, some don't like diversity, not everyone will like us.......so as he learns that , and learns to realize that he just can't dress up and be a nurse, and there is more to it than playing a role..........he may drop out of it and go work at Walmart as a greeter.!!!!! LOL.

nursecathy · Jan 12, 2004

Thank you! That is exactly right! This student got the chance. We have competitive admissions and we only take a handful of students each year. We had 65 test and we took only the top 18 (supposed to be 15) I have a 65 bed hospital for my clinical experience. GA Board of Nursing states that you can only take 1 student for every 8 hospital beds into the hospital at one time. Only 10 students are allowed per clinical instructor in any clinical setting. So you see, he got a very precious seat in the nursing class. A very sought after seat! Ever year we have potential students clamoring to get into our program! I currently have no input into who gets in. It is strictly based on scores and GPA's.. We take in extra, because we always lose several before we get into the clinical area for various reasons. We plan to change the criteria so that the instuctors can have some input. We need it. We have a few spots. we need to try to find serious nurse applicants only! Thanks to every one for your responses. It helps to see how the rest of the world views a topic that is on your mind. And some of you really got me to thinking about some of my own bias ( now admit it we all have them). By the way, I do have a dress code. No acrylic nails. No hair on the color. No jewelry except watch, wedding rings and stud earrings. Do not come in looking like an unmade bed! Iron those uniforms and keep them clean. Oh and if you are more than 15 minutes late to clinicals, you go home and get to make it up another day! =This means I have to make it up too, therefore I am not a happy camper. But I am big on the work ethic.. You will have one to get out of my class! Oh, and by the way--we grade on the 80th percentile;therefore you have to get 80% correct to make a C!!!

God Bless each and everyone of you! You are great nurses or you wouldn't be here! go to work tomorrow (on time) and make a difference in someones life! Don't let anyone's skin break down either, nor allow anyone to catch pneumonia from immobility!!

nursecathy · Jan 12, 2004

TCJan. Thanks for your honesty.. I still have women who refuse a male nurse for baths. It is the old school and I respect them and get them a female. I intend to be a patient advocate as well as an educator! I remember being young and idealistic, now I old (53) and realistic! All these answers are in the Bible. Just take a peek!!

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Jan 12, 2004

Originally posted by kwagner_51
This is strictly my OPINION!! The Instructor does have rights. It could very well be against her religion. How can she justify, teacching someone whom she knows is living in sin? Doesn't that violate her beliefs?

Why must every one tell everything about themselves? When did it become appropriate to tell EVERYONE about their sexual orientation?? I have absolutely NO problem with people being homosexual, transgendered, transvestied, etc as long as they keep it to themselves!!

I don't tell anyone what my sex live is like because it is NONE of their business.

ISMT that when someone comes 'out of the closet' thatey are trying to draw attention to themselves, as if they are special humans. They are not special, but they are human!!

My daughter had a homosexual friend who insists that everybody cater to him, because he is different!! Unfortunately, this kid is also a liar and a thief!! I have told her that she can not judge all homosexuals by this one person. Not all homosexuals are liars and thieves. Just this one.

Would I have a problem with transgender or homosexual nurses? No, I don't think I would. A female doctor delivered my daughter and a Muslim Male doctor delivered all 3 of my boys!!

All I am asking is why must people outside the norms of society try to push their crap [whatever it is] down our throats?

I am a Christian and sexual conduct outside the realm of 'normal' as set up by God [to me] is wrong!! Yet no one thinks that Christians have rights. All I hear is I am homophobic, and all kinds of hate spews out of people's mouths when I mention that I am a Christian.

Am I not being discriminated against, because I believe in Someone higher that me?

(Please take the following as tongue in cheek)

So, I as a Jewish woman, could refuse to take care of you, a vile heinous sinner that believes in that Christ person and eats nonkosher food - how dirty!!!!

And of course you check all of your coworkers lives - if they are divorced for non-biblical reasons, or were married by a judge instead of in the Church. You wouldn't want to socialize with them or those illegitimates that they raise. You don't want to support their sinfulness, "since you believe in someone higher up"

And how about those evil people (that if not "Biblically appropriatelly" married)bringing pictures of their conceived in sin children - Why do they insist on shoving their sin in your face???? And talking about them as though they are proud of it.

Should I mention that I have an Ex-BrotherIn Law that is a diehard Christian and he expects everyone to cater to him. He has also been jailed for molesting two neighbor children and for dealing drugs to minors. But I will try to remember that not all Christians do that, just some of them.

Do I have a problem with Christian nurses. Why I think that some have drawn blood from me and maybe assisted with a pap smear or two, while my Jewish doctor was there and I guess that they did alright.

ALL I ASK IS THAT IF YOU ARE CHRISTIAN/HETEROSEXUAL, WHY DO YOU INSIST ON SHOVING DOWN ALL OF OUR THROATS, demanding special rights and to be acknowledged.

(isn't it enough that you get special holidays). We don't want to know about iiiittttt.

Etc,

Etc.

You talk about your spouse or lack of one at work or among acquaintances. How is that different than a gay person talking about their spouse and their loved ones? What is "special" about that? It is a "Human" thing to do, not a special thing.

How is this individual's anomalie (being born in an inappropriately gendered body) any different than someone discussing their history of depression, dyslexia, or medical defect status with an instructor. If this was an individual with Turner's Syndrome, or another XY chromesome defect, or having been assigned an inappropriate gender at birth, how would you suggest handling it? For all we know, this may be one of those cases.

Please remember that we all do not believe the same, but we still have to live with each other on this planet.

CCU NRS · Jan 12, 2004

Love your sig line

Frodo Failed! Bush has the ring!

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Jan 12, 2004

Originally posted by kwagner_51
This is strictly my OPINION!! The Instructor does have rights. It could very well be against her religion. How can she justify, teacching someone whom she knows is living in sin? Doesn't that violate her beliefs?

Why must every one tell everything about themselves? When did it become appropriate to tell EVERYONE about their sexual orientation?? I have absolutely NO problem with people being homosexual, transgendered, transvestied, etc as long as they keep it to themselves!!

ISMT that when someone comes 'out of the closet' thatey are trying to draw attention to themselves, as if they are special humans. They are not special, but they are human!!

My daughter had a homosexual friend who insists that everybody cater to him, because he is different!! Unfortunately, this kid is also a liar and a thief!! I have told her that she can not judge all homosexuals by this one person. Not all homosexuals are liars and thieves. Just this one.

All I am asking is why must people outside the norms of society try to push their crap [whatever it is] down our throats?

I am a Christian and sexual conduct outside the realm of 'normal' as set up by God [to me] is wrong!! Yet no one thinks that Christians have rights. All I hear is I am homophobic, and all kinds of hate spews out of people's mouths when I mention that I am a Christian.

Am I not being discriminated against, because I believe in Someone higher that me?

First of all, I think it was really good of you to come back and apologize for the above statements. And thank you for the background about your former husband- it sheds a little light on why you have these views. Maybe you still have some pain to get over regarding that situation? Please hear me out for a minute, because I have a totally different life experience than you to share, and maybe it'll give you a little bit of a different perspective. I don't normally share personal things about myself on this board, so this isn't easy for me to do, and I hope it's not inappropriate.

When I was a teenager (about 16), my father decided to leave my mother for the "other woman" and become a Southern Baptist preacher. He had already had a lot of homophobic, racist, and sexist views, but it was exacerbated when he decided to do this. I (and my sisters) spent many years in spritual crisis because of him and his views. I went to a performing arts high school (very hard to get in), and he wouldn't attend any of my shows/concerts, because he said there were too many gays in my school. He wasn't proud that I got into that school, he was more concerned about the gays there.

As a matter of fact, the pressures he placed on me and my sisters when we would go visit him gave me reason to run away from home (and I never went back) just so I wouldn't have to go visit him. Everything that came out of his mouth was judgemental toward women, blacks, gays, and non-protestants. We had rigid rules and dress codes to follow at his house, and had to go to his church while we were there. We were told we had to get saved and subscribe to his beliefs or we would go to hell. My stepmother was very complacent and went along with everything he said and did. This wasn't a healthy environment at all. My own mother was a mess trying to cope with raising 3 teens by herself and entering the workforce after being a SAHM most of her life. With very little child support from him, I might add. We lived in absolute poverty while he lived pretty good with his new family.

So, who do you think took care of me and protected me while I was a teenage runaway? It was gay men. In my town, the punk rock kids (which I was one) and the gays hung around each other. At that time, teens could get into bars here if there was a dance floor- they just couldn't drink. The bars we hung out in were the gay bars, because they were more accepting of us. There were lots of gay men that I knew just from that who were good and caring people, and knew what it felt like to be isolated from their parents- just like me. I also knew a lot of gays who didn't hang out in bars at all. Some were gay, some drag queens, and a couple transexuals. Gay men were some of the first adults who knew where I was coming from, and knew how I felt about a lot of things. They were the first ones who could give me an adult perspective on how I could make my life work. A good number of them had run away from their small hometowns, established themselves here, and put themselves through school, got good jobs, made friends, became active in the community, and even went to church. They taught me how to cook, get an apartment, finish high school, get started in college, and pay my bills. A gay couple took me in so I could finish high school, and my prom date was a gay man. They encouraged me to play my violin in an off-Broadway company, and some of them traveled to come to my shows and support me. In a lot of ways, they taught me how to be a self-sufficient adult without the help of my biological parents. They were the first males I learned to trust, and any amount of spirituality I may have now, I owe to them. None of their "gayness" rubbed off on me, and they taught me it was OK to be a female in this world.

Sorry, but in my eyes, they are not deviants. I see overzealous religious people as downright scary at times. I've never had a gay or trans. person knock on my door at 8AM trying to preach their message to me with their foot in the door. I've never had a gay or trans. person throw eggs at me and shove a plastic fetus in my face, and tell me I am going to hell while walking a friend into the abortion clinic after she got date-raped. And I never had a gay or trans. person curse me as I was going into a movie or play, or going to see a parade. So, if you want to talk about people with mental issues, we can talk about the "other side" too. I don't particularly feel as if these religious people are mentally stable, but would you deny THEM equal opportunity to work as nurses? Granted, they can keep their "issues" to themselves too, but does that make them more mentally stable? I think not. Sometimes, "In His grace" can mean "In His place," or "In your face."

Sorry for the long post.

PMHNP10 · Jan 12, 2004

I'm curious about 1 thing. I will not pretend to know alot about the rules and regs which govern nurses from state to state, but I do know there are some specific rules for potential nurses who have been diagnosed as bipolar, borderline, paranoid schizophrenic, etc--I don't know if these disqualify you from practicing, or require you to meet certain requirements in order to practice. Point being, all of these are within the DSM-IV as is gender identity disorder; is there any mention of GID within these rules and regs? If not, I personally see no reason to not allow the prospective nurse to enter the program. Now that they have been accepted, their ability to finish will be up to them. I just hope no small minded person sees fit to make sure this doesn't happen.

CCU NRS · Jan 12, 2004

I just left the ending because I thought it was sweet of you to say!

Originally posted by nursecathy
Thank you! That is exactly right! This student got the chance. We have competitive admissions and we only take a handful of students each year. We had 65 test and we took only the top 18 (supposed to be 15) I have a 65 bed hospital for my clinical experience. GA Board of Nursing states that you can only take 1 student for every 8 hospital beds into the hospital at one time. Only 10 students are allowed per clinical instructor in any clinical setting. So you see, he got a very precious seat in the nursing class. A very sought after seat! Ever year we have potential students clamoring to get into our program!
God Bless each and everyone of you! You are great nurses or you wouldn't be here! go to work tomorrow (on time) and make a difference in someones life! Don't let anyone's skin break down either, nor allow anyone to catch pneumonia from immobility!!

Ok well seeing this it seems that you value the entrance criteria as you said it is very competitive and you only took the top 18 from 65. This person was able to make the cut so in all fairness deserves his/her chance to make the grade. I see two things I would suggest, first just have a very long very personal talk with this student and explain your concerns and the problem with dressing only male or female to me this is the biggest issue, if she will dress consistantly male or consitantly female for class and clinicals and make all interactions as such (only one gender) then she will and you will have far less problems. Second I would explain up front that nursing requires the clinical grade as well as the class grade and that it is your fear that clinical experience may be a bit of a problem if too many Pts refuse to let you be their caregiver, that being said explain that you want to be clear that you will not make special allowences if clinical criteria are unable to be met R/T this problem. It is the schools responsibility to make the clincal situations available but if they are not available D/T the transgender issue that will not be the responsibility of the school.

One of the previous posts mentioned that lots of people go through tough times during their nursing school with divorces and raising children and running a family and etc. I see this as a much bigger problem than any of those strictly because it is a public issue by nature, if you keep your composure and don't tell anyone about your divorce it is only public knowledge if they read in the paper divorce notices, if you are raising three children and have a spouse that expectas supper on the table regardless of your responsibilities regarding school again unless you are unable to bear the strain no one else need know these things. Transgender is obvious to many people just on sight of the person and will become an issue without any extraneous effort on the part of this student it will be an issue because it is obvious. Are all of these things stressful and difficult to deal with on top of attending school absolutely but a transgender situation will be more difficult by a factor of ten. I wish this student the best and Nursecathy I am sure it will challenge you too in a way that most instructors will never have to deal with. I know that In my program (here is a litttle bias for you) our instructors had to go and ask the Pts if they were ok with having a student nurse and if that nurse were male they also asked approval for that. Would you be ok with a male student nurse? How will you pesent this person? If she is going to dress consistantly female would you be obligated to explain that she is in fact a male nurse? As a male student I had the biggest problems in OB a lot of women just don't want an inexperienced male dealing with that area LOL! But really that is a factor you may have to consider I mean if you misrepresent this person and a Pt becomes upset it could lead to larger problems. Is this a question you ask of the clients,the would you allow a male question?

LydiaGreen · Jan 12, 2004

In our program, we ask the patients ourselves, as the students, if they will accept our care. I have never been refused, neither have any of my classmates. One of them is male - he also happens to be gay. He does not have to disclose this fact to them, and really, it is none of anyone's business. I do not believe that the student in question should have to disclose the fact that she is transgendered... it is noone's business. There are many women who are masculine looking, and men who are feminine looking. There are even women with five o'clock shadow - sometimes it just can't be helped. Unless it is blatantly obvious, most clients would just chock it up to a woman who is masculine looking. It isn't anyone's business - period. If someone feels that the student is odd or different, they certainly have the right to refuse her care... but you will find that a great many will not. Unless the clinical placements consist entirely of patients in a long term care facility, you will find that many people are much more accepting in this day and age.

Yes, I know, small town, etc, etc. I live in a small town - 8,500 people. It was half that size when I was in high school - there were no openly lesbian students and any openly gay students were abused and harassed and tormented until they ran away from school - then they were abused and harassed and tormented until they ran away from home. Many did not return to our little hick town and their families. One did. He's the male student in my class. He has a huge burden to carry - he sees on a daily basis the bullies and bigots who tormented him in his teen years. He never complains, he never comments - he just carries on with his head held high. If this student is able to work in clinicals with half of the decorum that my classmate possesses, he will be an asset to the healthcare team, and an example of how to overcome diversity and cruelty and have a positive effect on the lives of strangers, friends, and even the former tormenters.

ShelleyERgirl, LPN · Jan 12, 2004

Originally posted by lgflamini
First of all, I think it was really good of you to come back and apologize for the above statements. And thank you for the background about your former husband- it sheds a little light on why you have these views. Maybe you still have some pain to get over regarding that situation? Please hear me out for a minute, because I have a totally different life experience than you to share, and maybe it'll give you a little bit of a different perspective. I don't normally share personal things about myself on this board, so this isn't easy for me to do, and I hope it's not inappropriate.

When I was a teenager (about 16), my father decided to leave my mother for the "other woman" and become a Southern Baptist preacher. He had already had a lot of homophobic, racist, and sexist views, but it was exacerbated when he decided to do this. I (and my sisters) spent many years in spritual crisis because of him and his views. I went to a performing arts high school (very hard to get in), and he wouldn't attend any of my shows/concerts, because he said there were too many gays in my school. He wasn't proud that I got into that school, he was more concerned about the gays there.

As a matter of fact, the pressures he placed on me and my sisters when we would go visit him gave me reason to run away from home (and I never went back) just so I wouldn't have to go visit him. Everything that came out of his mouth was judgemental toward women, blacks, gays, and non-protestants. We had rigid rules and dress codes to follow at his house, and had to go to his church while we were there. We were told we had to get saved and subscribe to his beliefs or we would go to hell. My stepmother was very complacent and went along with everything he said and did. This wasn't a healthy environment at all. My own mother was a mess trying to cope with raising 3 teens by herself and entering the workforce after being a SAHM most of her life. With very little child support from him, I might add. We lived in absolute poverty while he lived pretty good with his new family.

So, who do you think took care of me and protected me while I was a teenage runaway? It was gay men. In my town, the punk rock kids (which I was one) and the gays hung around each other. At that time, teens could get into bars here if there was a dance floor- they just couldn't drink. The bars we hung out in were the gay bars, because they were more accepting of us. There were lots of gay men that I knew just from that who were good and caring people, and knew what it felt like to be isolated from their parents- just like me. I also knew a lot of gays who didn't hang out in bars at all. Some were gay, some drag queens, and a couple transexuals. Gay men were some of the first adults who knew where I was coming from, and knew how I felt about a lot of things. They were the first ones who could give me an adult perspective on how I could make my life work. A good number of them had run away from their small hometowns, established themselves here, and put themselves through school, got good jobs, made friends, became active in the community, and even went to church. They taught me how to cook, get an apartment, finish high school, get started in college, and pay my bills. A gay couple took me in so I could finish high school, and my prom date was a gay man. They encouraged me to play my violin in an off-Broadway company, and some of them traveled to come to my shows and support me. In a lot of ways, they taught me how to be a self-sufficient adult without the help of my biological parents. They were the first males I learned to trust, and any amount of spirituality I may have now, I owe to them. None of their "gayness" rubbed off on me, and they taught me it was OK to be a female in this world.

Sorry, but in my eyes, they are not deviants. I see overzealous religious people as downright scary at times. I've never had a gay or trans. person knock on my door at 8AM trying to preach their message to me with their foot in the door. I've never had a gay or trans. person throw eggs at me and shove a plastic fetus in my face, and tell me I am going to hell while walking a friend into the abortion clinic after she got date-raped. And I never had a gay or trans. person curse me as I was going into a movie or play, or going to see a parade. So, if you want to talk about people with mental issues, we can talk about the "other side" too. I don't particularly feel as if these religious people are mentally stable, but would you deny THEM equal opportunity to work as nurses? Granted, they can keep their "issues" to themselves too, but does that make them more mentally stable? I think not. Sometimes, "In His grace" can mean "In His place," or "In your face."

Sorry for the long post.

Do not apologize for that post! That was a great post and personally made me want to run out and get some gay male friends! .....and I am a Christian!

LydiaNN · Jan 12, 2004

I don't think your program had any choice but to let this person in, provided s/he is qualified. If it creeps patients out, that has to be their problem, not the nurse's and not your's. We are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs, but assuming your program receives federal funds (including student loans, I believe) you are obligated to follow EO laws. A patient who can't deal with that will just have to receive their care elsewhere.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Jan 12, 2004

Originally posted by navynurse29
Do not apologize for that post!

(((Navynurse))), thanks.:kiss