According to latest AANP survey, the total number of nurse practitioners in the United States is now at 325,000.
Last year it was at 290,000 so it increased by 35,000 or 12% in one year.
There are approx. 9,000 physician assistant graduates per year.
There are approx. 33,000 physician graduates per year.
The number of new NPs annually is not only higher than other fields, but accelerating. In 2010, for example, there were only about 10,000 NP graduates a year.
Are we heading toward massive saturation of our own field?
Um, that’s quite a leap. I only said I’d take whatever job I can get assuming there won’t be much demand for an inexperienced NP. That doesn’t mean I’ll work for nothing—but I’m not going to demand six figures with zero experience.
This response is exhibit A to why saturation hurts us all. You are already saying that you expect being an NP to be a 5 figure position. The only reason you think that way is competition and over saturation. As an NP, you have to think different from when you were an RN and did not produce revenue. You are now a product yourself - your services and knowledge are SOLD to the client. An NP working 5 days a week seeing 15-20 patients in primary care can easily bring in $300,000 to $400,000 annually for the practice. Now, seeing those numbers you are okay with the practice pocketing 80%+ of that money you bring in? You're okay with making them nearly half a million dollars while they pay you 80 or 90K a year for the work?
If the market were not saturated, you could demand higher. You could demand to receive 50% or more of your billing and easily net high six figures, into the 200K range. So what's stopping you? Competition. Because for every 1 NP who knows their worth and the numbers and what they bring into the practice, there are now 9 or 10 newbies from an online diploma mill who see becoming an NP as nothing more than another promotion from bedside and are more than happy to burnout working 10 hour days and making $85K a year because the only made $60K as an RN. And as long as there are people willing to do that, the people making hiring decisions don't care how much experience the rest of us have, or how well we treat patients, or how great our patient outcomes are. What they see is $$$ and they are never going to pay us a "fair" wage based on what we bring in when so many others are willing to work for a fraction of that.
Saturation hurts us all. It even hurts those already employed. I read someone's personal story on another blog a few months ago about being called into HR and told to either take a pay cut or quit because the new hire NPs were all working for substantially less and they needed to ensure "pay equity" in the office. Anyone happily advocating for diploma mills to continue to drive up our numbers is completely deluded into thinking they are somehow immune to market forces.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
16 hours ago, djmatte said:
Except reimbursement doesn’t vary by much by area. What you bill insurance is the similar in all regions from everything I see. Different state Medicaid reimbursement can be exceptionally different though as they set their own parameters.
I very much appreciate your comments on NPs getting paid according to the revenue they generate. This is an important negotiating tip for experienced NPs, especially in states with FPA. However, it is propably not going to work for a new grad NP
Um, that’s quite a leap. I only said I’d take whatever job I can get assuming there won’t be much demand for an inexperienced NP. That doesn’t mean I’ll work for nothing—but I’m not going to demand six figures with zero experience.
Serious question: Do the 6 figures include perks or 6 figures basic pay? I'll be going through this soon so I'm getting my knowledge game up so I don't get robbed.
Serious question: Do the 6 figures include perks or 6 figures basic pay? I'll be going through this soon so I'm getting my knowledge game up so I don't get robbed.
6 figures base. You can go up and down with bonus potential sometimes. So long as the numbers are realistic. Certainly nothing less than 95k. But be realistic with expectations. Expect a 3 month ramp up to improve your comfort level. But after that you should be seeing 20 or more patients a day and easily command over 100k. Your ability To articulate that to your employer is key.
6 figures base. You can go up and down with bonus potential sometimes. So long as the numbers are realistic. Certainly nothing less than 95k. But be realistic with expectations. Expect a 3 month ramp up to improve your comfort level. But after that you should be seeing 20 or more patients a day and easily command over 100k. Your ability To articulate that to your employer is key.
Same for a residency program? I'm looking into residency programs too. Is the expectation the same or slightly lower than base with an increase once residency is completed?
Same for a residency program? I'm looking into residency programs too. Is the expectation the same or slightly lower than base with an increase once residency is completed?
So residency I can’t speak for. I feel 80s is probably appropriate for residents. Presuming you aren’t seeing a full load and there is a legit education process going on.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
1 hour ago, NurseBlaq said:
Same for a residency program? I'm looking into residency programs too. Is the expectation the same or slightly lower than base with an increase once residency is completed?
Residencies will pay in the 70s or 80s. A resident NP is not at full productivity. There would be an increase to the market rate upon completion of the residency
I will never be an NP because of this. If I wanted to be a provider, I would just go get my MD. I have no interest in doing this though...I wanna enjoy my life and have less stress ?
Just jumping in to say I generally start to gather an understanding of a situation based on simple factors. And one simple factor here is that there is a reason multi-billion dollar corporations are all-in on paying tuition reimbursement so that staff nurses can "advance." It isn't because they think we deserve it or are healthcare heroes. They know exactly how this is going to play out with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of nurse practitioners out there. ? for them.
Hope it isn't too tin-foil hat of me, but I have a theory that this is, in part, why they didn't blink when a wealth of experience (RN experience) ran for the exits. They directly facilitated it. On purpose. Corporations can churn nurses through the bedside role now and be ever-so-happy when they head straight for the provider pathway.
But, once again, it strokes some people's emotional needs to think of someone concerning themselves with nurses' "advancement" so we fail to see the big picture and are happy to play the role of useful idiot. Again. Bedside is screwed for the foreseeable future and advanced roles are well on their way to being the same. While business people salivate at the idea of trying to flood big markets (just like with RNs) and getting to deal with nurses in provider roles (instead of doctors).
Just a thought.
PS - schools are laughing all the way to the bank, too--including well-known and very well regarded universities.
I will never be an NP because of this. If I wanted to be a provider, I would just go get my MD. I have no interest in doing this though...I wanna enjoy my life and have less stress ?
I was way more stressed as a bedside RN, but YMMV.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
23 hours ago, NurseBlaq said:
Same for a residency program? I'm looking into residency programs too. Is the expectation the same or slightly lower than base with an increase once residency is completed?
Residencies will pay in the 70s or 80s. A resident NP is not at full productivity. There would be an increase to the market rate upon completion of the residency
MentalKlarity, BSN, NP
360 Posts
This response is exhibit A to why saturation hurts us all. You are already saying that you expect being an NP to be a 5 figure position. The only reason you think that way is competition and over saturation. As an NP, you have to think different from when you were an RN and did not produce revenue. You are now a product yourself - your services and knowledge are SOLD to the client. An NP working 5 days a week seeing 15-20 patients in primary care can easily bring in $300,000 to $400,000 annually for the practice. Now, seeing those numbers you are okay with the practice pocketing 80%+ of that money you bring in? You're okay with making them nearly half a million dollars while they pay you 80 or 90K a year for the work?
If the market were not saturated, you could demand higher. You could demand to receive 50% or more of your billing and easily net high six figures, into the 200K range. So what's stopping you? Competition. Because for every 1 NP who knows their worth and the numbers and what they bring into the practice, there are now 9 or 10 newbies from an online diploma mill who see becoming an NP as nothing more than another promotion from bedside and are more than happy to burnout working 10 hour days and making $85K a year because the only made $60K as an RN. And as long as there are people willing to do that, the people making hiring decisions don't care how much experience the rest of us have, or how well we treat patients, or how great our patient outcomes are. What they see is $$$ and they are never going to pay us a "fair" wage based on what we bring in when so many others are willing to work for a fraction of that.
Saturation hurts us all. It even hurts those already employed. I read someone's personal story on another blog a few months ago about being called into HR and told to either take a pay cut or quit because the new hire NPs were all working for substantially less and they needed to ensure "pay equity" in the office. Anyone happily advocating for diploma mills to continue to drive up our numbers is completely deluded into thinking they are somehow immune to market forces.