Total Number of Nurse Practitioners Hits 325,000

[MentalKlarity]

According to latest AANP survey, the total number of nurse practitioners in the United States is now at 325,000.

Last year it was at 290,000 so it increased by 35,000 or 12% in one year.

There are approx. 9,000 physician assistant graduates per year.

There are approx. 33,000 physician graduates per year.

The number of new NPs annually is not only higher than other fields, but accelerating. In 2010, for example, there were only about 10,000 NP graduates a year.

Are we heading toward massive saturation of our own field?

[Guest1144461]

100% over saturation. My residency had 100 applicants for TWO positions. Literally every floor nurse I meet is in NP school and new nurse techs already ask me questions daily about it.

 

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

On 5/9/2021 at 12:42 PM, CommunityRNBSN said:

All I know is what I see on the ground.  I look at job listings for psychiatric NPs, because that is what I'm in school for now.  In my state, people are desperate.  The job listings read like: "Do you have a PMHNP license?  Do you have a pulse?  You can set your own hours; sign on bonus; full-time, part-time, or per diem. Start date immediate."

My area is saturated with PMHNP, as well as all levels of NPs, as many saw the $$$ and rushed to school. Now in debt, unable to relocate d/t various reasons, it's like every other job that promises big bucks. Other areas will most likely start to see this as well, I'm sure.

ETA: Someone commented that rural areas will have more need. Not necessarily. I'm in a very rural area. Beyond saturated with RNs and NPs (of all specialties) because everyone went to school thinking big bucks. Most are part of farm families, so moving isn't feasible. Claiming rural areas have large need isn't correct, as many are starting to have the saturation creep as well

[CommunityRNBSN, BSN, RN]

I was listening to the Carlat Psychiatry podcast and I just learned about the Flexner Report of 1910. A group systematically investigated all the medical schools in the US, and determined that more than half were doing a poor job— and also that there were too many medical schools, pumping out unqualified candidates. As a result, half the medical schools closed, and the other half ended up highly standardized. The report is one of the main reasons that our MD schools are high-quality, accept only top candidates, and have a standardized curriculum. Seems like we need a similar process to take place in NP education. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexner_Report

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

2 hours ago, CommunityRNBSN said:

I was listening to the Carlat Psychiatry podcast and I just learned about the Flexner Report of 1910. A group systematically investigated all the medical schools in the US, and determined that more than half were doing a poor job— and also that there were too many medical schools, pumping out unqualified candidates. As a result, half the medical schools closed, and the other half ended up highly standardized. The report is one of the main reasons that our MD schools are high-quality, accept only top candidates, and have a standardized curriculum. Seems like we need a similar process to take place in NP education. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexner_Report

Ha would be amazing if nursing boards actually cared. I think they see the $$$ and that's all. There's no way they don't already know what a poor job some of these programs do preparing students.

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

Everyone's response to the saturation is the same: move to an undesirable or rural area. First, obviously not everyone can do that or would be miserable doing that. Beyond that though, do people think rural areas are just magically immune to saturation? If we starting pumping out 20K more nurse practitioners than we need annually, eventually they will start moving to rural areas. As that continues, the rural areas will ALSO become saturated. Eventually there will simply be no option other than telling new graduate NPs to just go back to being an RN.

[DermNP, BSN, MSN, DNP, RN, APRN, NP]

Now is not the time to be a NP if you want job security. That ship has sailed.  I would advise any RN thinking they want to be a NP to think again.  The juice isn't worth the squeeze with the over supply of new graduates.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

17 hours ago, Hoosier_RN said:

My area is saturated with PMHNP, as well as all levels of NPs, as many saw the $$$ and rushed to school. Now in debt, unable to relocate d/t various reasons, it's like every other job that promises big bucks. Other areas will most likely start to see this as well, I'm sure.

 

Mental health is ideally suited to telehealth, so physical area saturation is not as important for PMHNPs.  

20 hours ago, Numenor said:

100% over saturation. My residency had 100 applicants for TWO positions. Literally every floor nurse I meet is in NP school and new nurse techs already ask me questions daily about it.

 

Actually, that is not an indication of too many NPs.  It is an indication of too few NP residencies.

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

8 hours ago, FullGlass said:

Mental health is ideally suited to telehealth, so physical area saturation is not as important for PMHNPs.  

Area saturation re: telehealth makes area saturation a non-factor as you rightly claim, at this point in time. But currently, PMHNP is the big $$$ specialty that everyone's flocking to. It will be saturated soon as well. The system can only absorb so many, regardless of logistics/delivery. 

[umbdude, MSN, APRN]

I don't think it's a total non-factor. Mental health is suited for telehealth but not necessarily 100% of the time and not for all patient populations. Also, there're a lot of uncertainties around what's going to happen after covid emergency is lifted- (1) Ryan Haight and (2) some states might not have telepsych parity and reimburse telehealth at lower rates.

The upshot is that we can't expect to work entirely remote unless we work for one of those telehealth companies (e.g. Iris) that already existed before covid that serve rural community health; or decline to take on any patients who use controlled substances. Some of those telehealth companies mentioned above already shown a decrease in pay because more & more people want to work remotely (myself included). Many telepsych companies that popped up during the pandemic pay horribly and are ethically dubious (I.e. pill mills for controlled substances). Private practices might require people go to back in-person once Ryan Haight exemption ends.

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

1 hour ago, umbdude said:

I don't think it's a total non-factor. Mental health is suited for telehealth but not necessarily 100% of the time and not for all patient populations. Also, there're a lot of uncertainties around what's going to happen after covid emergency is lifted- (1) Ryan Haight and (2) some states might not have telepsych parity and reimburse telehealth at lower rates.

The upshot is that we can't expect to work entirely remote unless we work for one of those telehealth companies (e.g. Iris) that already existed before covid that serve rural community health; or decline to take on any patients who use controlled substances. Some of those telehealth companies mentioned above already shown a decrease in pay because more & more people want to work remotely (myself included). Many telepsych companies that popped up during the pandemic pay horribly and are ethically dubious (I.e. pill mills for controlled substances). Private practices might require people go to back in-person once Ryan Haight exemption ends.

Exactly correct. The restrictions on telehealth by states and insurance companies mean that it has blossomed during state of emergency executive actions but once the pandemic is over we will go to status quo. Very few states have made it permanent. Telehealth has numerous limitations both in reimbursement and what you can actually do. If you're pursuing psych for telehealth I would definitely not count on it.

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

6 hours ago, umbdude said:

I don't think it's a total non-factor. Mental health is suited for telehealth but not necessarily 100% of the time and not for all patient populations. Also, there're a lot of uncertainties around what's going to happen after covid emergency is lifted- (1) Ryan Haight and (2) some states might not have telepsych parity and reimburse telehealth at lower rates.

The upshot is that we can't expect to work entirely remote unless we work for one of those telehealth companies (e.g. Iris) that already existed before covid that serve rural community health; or decline to take on any patients who use controlled substances. Some of those telehealth companies mentioned above already shown a decrease in pay because more & more people want to work remotely (myself included). Many telepsych companies that popped up during the pandemic pay horribly and are ethically dubious (I.e. pill mills for controlled substances). Private practices might require people go to back in-person once Ryan Haight exemption ends.

I stand corrected as far as my statement of nonfactor. But my point is still that you can only load so many practitioners of a specialty into a system regardless of delivery of care method. The system can only absorb so much. I'm just hoping the system corrects itself soon

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

2 hours ago, Hoosier_RN said:

I stand corrected as far as my statement of nonfactor. But my point is still that you can only load so many practitioners of a specialty into a system regardless of delivery of care method. The system can only absorb so much. I'm just hoping the system corrects itself soon

I'm not sure how it can. No one has an impetus to stop it. Nursing orgs want more money/power/members. Schools want tuition money, especially the for profit programs that enroll thousands at a time. Nurses (a large number of them) want easy online degrees with no entry requirements.

 

As an example, what ever happened to the DNP as the entry level degree? That was supposed to be standard by 2015. It's now 2021 and it's still not standard. Why did nursing orgs change their mind? My guess is entry level DNP would have hurt enrollment levels (more time) as well as bottom line for programs and they backed off. It's clear that money and power is all the nursing organizations care about, even at the detriment of our profession, respect, and patient care.