Total Number of Nurse Practitioners Hits 325,000

[MentalKlarity]

According to latest AANP survey, the total number of nurse practitioners in the United States is now at 325,000.

Last year it was at 290,000 so it increased by 35,000 or 12% in one year.

There are approx. 9,000 physician assistant graduates per year.

There are approx. 33,000 physician graduates per year.

The number of new NPs annually is not only higher than other fields, but accelerating. In 2010, for example, there were only about 10,000 NP graduates a year.

Are we heading toward massive saturation of our own field?

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

1 hour ago, FullGlass said:

 

I have never seen a profession like NPs where you all are so scared of increasing supply.  I'm not.  The market always corrects itself over time.

 

It's just not true. There are plenty of professions that have been overwhelmed by supply and wages dropped as jobs became scarce. You also put too much stock in employers, as many just want a warm body and don't care who does it while they push all liability to the provider. I'm sorry but we're just not gonna have a system where Walden graduates make $45 an hour and Johns Hopkins graduates makes $115 an hour. No employer will pay that premium. If the market becomes tight employers simply lower wages and salary as they don't have to compete for applicants. That's literally just how the employment market works.

 

There's a reason physicians have rejected attempts to increase schools/residency slots. They know that their endless job opportunities and high salaries are entirely dependent on low supply. If we double the number of physicians overnight their salaries would drop like a rock. They know that. We should too.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

16 hours ago, MentalKlarity said:

It's just not true. There are plenty of professions that have been overwhelmed by supply and wages dropped as jobs became scarce. You also put too much stock in employers, as many just want a warm body and don't care who does it while they push all liability to the provider. I'm sorry but we're just not gonna have a system where Walden graduates make $45 an hour and Johns Hopkins graduates makes $115 an hour. No employer will pay that premium. If the market becomes tight employers simply lower wages and salary as they don't have to compete for applicants. That's literally just how the employment market works.

 

There's a reason physicians have rejected attempts to increase schools/residency slots. They know that their endless job opportunities and high salaries are entirely dependent on low supply. If we double the number of physicians overnight their salaries would drop like a rock. They know that. We should too.

I have given you a multitude of examples to prove my point.  You respond with nothing but assertions.  If you want to live in fear, fine, but stop trying to fan hysteria.  

"The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) projects a 28% job growth rate for NPs between 2018-28, faster than all other APRNs. This strong employment outlook is expected to continue as baby boomers age, the number of patients with acute or chronic medical conditions increases, and NPs retire or leave the workforce for other occupations.

Job seekers may find significant differences in NP salary by geographic area. For instance, California boasts the highest median total annual income ($145,000), followed by Hawaii ($140,000). Southern states that offer lower costs of living pay the lowest median total incomes. Alabama NPs earn a median income of $104,000, ranking the state second-to-last. Kentucky pays its NPs a median income of $100,000, the lowest of all 50 states.

The AANP’s regional compensation snapshot shows the highest median income ($133,000) for NPs working in the western region of the U.S., consisting of Arizona, California, Hawaii, New Mexico, and Nevada. Community size also impacts NP salary levels. The BLS reports that nurses employed in urban centers can expect the highest pay. NPs employed in California’s Vallejo-Fairfield area earn a mean annual salary of $175,060, the top pay rate for all U.S. metropolitan areas."

https://nursejournal.org/nurse-practitioner/salary/

 

This is interesting - 

"The growth in NPs has reduced the size of the RN workforce by up to 80,000 RNs nationwide, the study authors said, at the same time the more than one million baby-boom RNs are well on their way to retirement."

https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/practices/just-7-years-number-nurse-practitioners-more-than-doubled-why-s-a-problem-for-hospitals

 

"The median salary for a Nurse Practitioner is $96,018. Salary is expected to grow by around 19% by 2020, again well above the national average.

Rural areas and underserved areas will require far more outpatient care centers with specialized nurse practitioners. According to the BLS Occupational Outlook Handbook, there will be a high demand for the four areas services provided by advanced practice nurse practitioners. These are nurse midwives, nurse anesthetists, nurse practitioners and clinical nurse specialists. It is believed that this trend is due to the fact that there are far fewer licensed physicians in such areas. Indeed, there is now a shortage of some 20,000 physicians and this is predicted to increase further."

https://nursejournal.org/articles/future-job-trends-for-nurse-practitioners/

 

"

Pay

The median annual wage for nurse anesthetists, nurse midwives, and nurse practitioners was $117,670 in May 2020.

Job Outlook

Overall employment of nurse anesthetists, nurse midwives, and nurse practitioners is projected to grow 45 percent from 2019 to 2029, much faster than the average for all occupations. Growth will occur primarily because of an increased emphasis on preventive care and demand for healthcare services from an aging population."

https://www.BLS.gov/ooh/healthcare/nurse-anesthetists-nurse-midwives-and-nurse-practitioners.htm

 

[Based on BLS data} "The average Nurse Practitioner income has grown by nearly 18% in the last five years. This increase is primarily due to the increased utilization of Nurse Practitioners in almost all sectors.  Nurse Practitioner income is projected to increase by 16.27% over the next five years. This high rate coincides with the greater number of Nurse Practitioners being utilized mainly in the primary care community."

https://www.nursingprocess.org/nurse-practitioner-salary/

 

I have confidence in myself.  In a competitive job market, I am confident I can stand out and come out ahead of the competition.  I suggest more NPs cultivate this attitude and do what it takes to be at the top of their game.

Life in the USA is competitive.  Getting into a good school is a competitive process.  Even in high school, getting onto the school sports teams is competitive.  Getting a good job is a competitive process.  So get over it.

[EL_Spel8]

There are shortage areas but it is in areas that the majority of people aren't comfortable working in. Prisons need medical workers but few want to work in prisons. There will always be a shortage of Mental Health Nurse Practitioners due to the type of mind set and compassion needed for this job along with the high burn out rate. Rural areas will always be underserved across all specialities.

There is employment out there for NP's it's just a matter of speciality and location people are willing to work in.

[PsychNurse24, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, FullGlass said:

I have given you a multitude of examples to prove my point.  You respond with nothing but assertions.  If you want to live in fear, fine, but stop trying to fan hysteria.  

"The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) projects a 28% job growth rate for NPs between 2018-28, faster than all other APRNs. This strong employment outlook is expected to continue as baby boomers age, the number of patients with acute or chronic medical conditions increases, and NPs retire or leave the workforce for other occupations.

Job seekers may find significant differences in NP salary by geographic area. For instance, California boasts the highest median total annual income ($145,000), followed by Hawaii ($140,000). Southern states that offer lower costs of living pay the lowest median total incomes. Alabama NPs earn a median income of $104,000, ranking the state second-to-last. Kentucky pays its NPs a median income of $100,000, the lowest of all 50 states.

The AANP’s regional compensation snapshot shows the highest median income ($133,000) for NPs working in the western region of the U.S., consisting of Arizona, California, Hawaii, New Mexico, and Nevada. Community size also impacts NP salary levels. The BLS reports that nurses employed in urban centers can expect the highest pay. NPs employed in California’s Vallejo-Fairfield area earn a mean annual salary of $175,060, the top pay rate for all U.S. metropolitan areas."

https://nursejournal.org/nurse-practitioner/salary/

 

This is interesting - 

"The growth in NPs has reduced the size of the RN workforce by up to 80,000 RNs nationwide, the study authors said, at the same time the more than one million baby-boom RNs are well on their way to retirement."

https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/practices/just-7-years-number-nurse-practitioners-more-than-doubled-why-s-a-problem-for-hospitals

 

"The median salary for a Nurse Practitioner is $96,018. Salary is expected to grow by around 19% by 2020, again well above the national average.

Rural areas and underserved areas will require far more outpatient care centers with specialized nurse practitioners. According to the BLS Occupational Outlook Handbook, there will be a high demand for the four areas services provided by advanced practice nurse practitioners. These are nurse midwives, nurse anesthetists, nurse practitioners and clinical nurse specialists. It is believed that this trend is due to the fact that there are far fewer licensed physicians in such areas. Indeed, there is now a shortage of some 20,000 physicians and this is predicted to increase further."

https://nursejournal.org/articles/future-job-trends-for-nurse-practitioners/

 

"

Pay

The median annual wage for nurse anesthetists, nurse midwives, and nurse practitioners was $117,670 in May 2020.

Job Outlook

Overall employment of nurse anesthetists, nurse midwives, and nurse practitioners is projected to grow 45 percent from 2019 to 2029, much faster than the average for all occupations. Growth will occur primarily because of an increased emphasis on preventive care and demand for healthcare services from an aging population."

https://www.BLS.gov/ooh/healthcare/nurse-anesthetists-nurse-midwives-and-nurse-practitioners.htm

 

[Based on BLS data} "The average Nurse Practitioner income has grown by nearly 18% in the last five years. This increase is primarily due to the increased utilization of Nurse Practitioners in almost all sectors.  Nurse Practitioner income is projected to increase by 16.27% over the next five years. This high rate coincides with the greater number of Nurse Practitioners being utilized mainly in the primary care community."

https://www.nursingprocess.org/nurse-practitioner-salary/

 

I have confidence in myself.  In a competitive job market, I am confident I can stand out and come out ahead of the competition.  I suggest more NPs cultivate this attitude and do what it takes to be at the top of their game.

Life in the USA is competitive.  Getting into a good school is a competitive process.  Even in high school, getting onto the school sports teams is competitive.  Getting a good job is a competitive process.  So get over it.

Totally agree!  Thanks for your awesome response.  You definitely have a half full approach, and I do too.You definitely have a half full approach, and I do too.

[djmatte, ADN, MSN, RN, NP]

1 minute ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Totally agree!  Thanks for your awesome response.  You definitely have a half full approach, and I do too.You definitely have a half full approach, and I do too.

The praise when she persistently tears down your diploma mill school and one line it is hilarious. The blinders are strong with this one. 

[DermNP, BSN, MSN, DNP, RN, APRN, NP]

I don't believe studies from the BLS.  I generally don't trust the government to tell me anything of value.  What I do trust is my peers and colleagues.  I trust my friends in the various NP associations where I am a member.  At every meeting I've attended in the past 12 months whether it is in person or online all I hear is that we are over supplied, wages are decreasing and it is becoming more difficult to find new employment.    

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

2 hours ago, DermNP said:

I don't believe studies from the BLS.  I generally don't trust the government to tell me anything of value.  What I do trust is my peers and colleagues.  I trust my friends in the various NP associations where I am a member.  At every meeting I've attended in the past 12 months whether it is in person or online all I hear is that we are over supplied, wages are decreasing and it is becoming more difficult to find new employment.    

As as been repeatedly discussed, the supply and demand for NPs varies greatly by location.  This past year has been a terrible year for NP job hunters, due to COVID.  As I previously stated, many MDs have also lost their jobs in the past year for the same reason.  I would not take the past year as an indication of a "normal" job market.  

Look, in pretty much any profession, people have to move to advance their careers.  It is pretty common for new professional grads to move for their first job.  There is no reason to think it should be any different for NPs.  MDs and PAs have to move to go to their schools, since they do not allow 100% online programs.  When MDs are matched, they usually have to move to their intership site.  That is also true of business people, lawyers, etc.  So for any prospective NPs reading this, be sure you know the demand for NPs where you want to live and work.  And if you are someone who refuses to move, making a career change to NP might not be a good idea for you.

The above discussion is also a very good argument against anyone going to a crappy NP school or becoming an NP as an easy road to making more money.

[strawberryluv, BSN, RN]

I don't understand and believe this NP saturation claim. As long as there are sick and old people which we are heading to with over 20% of our population being elderly living with a chronic disease. We will need NPs. There are NPs working in a variety of settings (primary care, hospice, Medicare survey assessments, house visits, prisons, etc). I don't believe this oversaturation claims. I am hearing from my own PCP how there is a huge need for NPs in primary care and I can't fit in an appointment with her same day because she is booked. I live in the south bay area close to Hayward-Union City-Fremont area and there is a large need. FQHCs are needing NPs. What about the primary care provider shortage? Doctors are not wanting to become primary care physicians and there is more than enough patients for primary care because of this..

[CommunityRNBSN, BSN, RN]

On 5/9/2021 at 8:48 PM, FullGlass said:

Why do you all assume that for-profit grads will take NP jobs paying crap?  If they can make more $ being an RN, then they will go back to being an RN! 

Many readers here are assuming that all new grad NPs are going to get NP jobs.  They aren't.  And an oversupply of crap NPs from crap schools is exactly what will drive those schools out of business.

There is also an assumption among many readers that employers are clueless about schools.  Well, they aren't.  They are more likely to hire new grad NPs from good schools, given a choice.  And many will not fill a position with just a warm body.  They have liability issues to consider.

In the corporate world, we recruited new college grads from certain schools.  We would go to the schools like UCLA, UC Irvine, Cal State LA, etc.  We would not go to Univ of Phoenix to recruit new grads.  I think doctors and nurses are well aware of decent schools.  Just because diploma mills are pumping out NPs does not mean that all those NPs will be hired.

An oversupply of crap NPs from crap schools is not going to drive down pay.  We have a surplus of attorneys, but the ones that work for the good firms still make good money.  We have surplus of STEM grads, but Silicon Valley still pays great money for good tech people.

I have never seen a profession like NPs where you all are so scared of increasing supply.  I'm not.  The market always corrects itself over time.

 

I do agree with most of this. I am getting my PMHNP from a well-known local brick-and-mortar university. Also, I have several years of RN experience such that I have a reputation as a good worker, smart, and committed to our patients. Therefore, why would I be scared about an oversupply of NPs?  If Walden wants to pump out grads that don’t know what they’re doing and have no connections, that’s fine, but I am unconcerned about finding a good job. 

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

49 minutes ago, CommunityRNBSN said:

I do agree with most of this. I am getting my PMHNP from a well-known local brick-and-mortar university. Also, I have several years of RN experience such that I have a reputation as a good worker, smart, and committed to our patients. Therefore, why would I be scared about an oversupply of NPs?  If Walden wants to pump out grads that don’t know what they’re doing and have no connections, that’s fine, but I am unconcerned about finding a good job. 

Again, it's not just about "finding a job" it's about ensuring we always have high wages, good benefits, and flexible PTO. An oversupply of providers WILL effect everyone, even those with a ton of experience who went to a great school. It's very difficult to explain to the hospital bean counters why you deserve $100 an hour and 6 weeks PTO if the Walden graduate was happy with $45 and 2 weeks off.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

41 minutes ago, MentalKlarity said:

Again, it's not just about "finding a job" it's about ensuring we always have high wages, good benefits, and flexible PTO. An oversupply of providers WILL effect everyone, even those with a ton of experience who went to a great school. It's very difficult to explain to the hospital bean counters why you deserve $100 an hour and 6 weeks PTO if the Walden graduate was happy with $45 and 2 weeks off.

How would you propose that "we always have high wages, good benefits, and flexible PTO?"  Even MD's can't manage that!  I can't imagine a legal way to accomplish that.

We do not have a centralized economy with guaranteed employment.  Countries that do are socialist, and then everyone gets paid crap.  

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

52 minutes ago, FullGlass said:

How would you propose that "we always have high wages, good benefits, and flexible PTO?"  Even MD's can't manage that!  I can't imagine a legal way to accomplish that.

We do not have a centralized economy with guaranteed employment.  Countries that do are socialist, and then everyone gets paid crap.  

By not flooding our market with endless new graduates so that the NP supply < NP demand. 

This is really just basic economics.

MDs do manage that. Let me know when an MD is applying to $40-$50 per hour jobs like many NPs are now. They have kept their supply low and thus demand is high and employers have to dangle big incentives. When there are 100,000+ (and growing) more NPs than NP jobs, employers will simply reduce the wages/benefits for every NP. 

 

I will give you a concrete example so you can understand better. About 8 months ago I actually applied for an interesting NP position (psych) that was interested in at a fairly large private practice. The employer informed me they would like to interview me and told the salary range. It was insulting. I did the interview anyway for practice and assuming I could always negotiate. They offered me the job. When I told them they were about 40% below the median PMHNP salary they told me they would not come up and that they had more than enough applicants that they didn't need to increase the pay. Another NP ended up accepting the position at the offered wage, which was in the 70K range for a psych NP full-time.

This is what oversupply does to our market.