Too much testosterone at work- frisky doctors

SmilingBluEyes · Dec 18, 2003

Originally posted by mattsmom81
Yes I read the OP and believe I responded to it empathetically.

Sorry if several points of view expressed here do not always coincide with the blanket 'men are always to blame' viewpoint.

Responding to another poster's comments does not warrant a rolled eyes from you, IMHO. Why the hostility? Have I done something to offend you?

Mattsmom:

I am offended only when someone attempts to mitigate a situation like this with some perceived behavior on the part of the person who feels harassed. Like I said before, if you read it, the perception IS IN THE EYES OF THE OFFENDED. All she need do is ask the person to STOP it. No extensive explanations needed.

Just a simple, "I am very uncomfortable with this conversation. Would you please refrain from such comments? I am not interested ."

No other words are usually necessary. IT does not matter how pretty a girl is....or how "easy" she is perceived to be. Once she has told the offending party to "stop", that should be the end of it, period. NO where did I see where your example has a lot to do with the problem the OP has. Pretty girls surround me where I work, too and no way would I assume they deserve this sort of treatment lobbed at them just cause they look nice or even act friendly.

Yes, some people would do well to develop a sense of humor, I agree. You make an excellent point!

But if a person is uncomfortable for any reason, it's up to him/her to stop the situation with firm and kind words and the other individual to respect it. That is all I mean. NO rolled eyes in my post that I can see, mattsmom. There just is NO excuse, period.

SmilingBluEyes · Dec 18, 2003

by the way, no where did I SAY it's "all the man's fault"...

harassment can does work both ways. I made the 2nd post more gender-neutral to make my point. Men have been and are harassed on the job.....it's wrong no matter who the harasser is.

TennNurse · Dec 18, 2003

Let your conversation be work related only and cut out the small talk with those pervs and 90% of this should be eliminated. [/b]

Gracious me, what a relief! How silly of that OP not to have thought of such an obvious solution! And to have failed to recognize them instantly as "pervs" undeserving of conversation in the first place was just plain stupid. When will we little women get it through our pretty heads that professional, platonic friendliness and comraderie are just not allowed? Especially if one is a "hottie", heavens, no!

May I ask, skybird, what will eliminate the other 10% of the problem? And (assuming that you agree that even this much sexual harassment is not to be tolerated) what your words of wisdom will be if it's not eliminated?

Observe her tag line. It says it all.

mattsmom81 · Dec 18, 2003

I don't see any point of staying in this conversation. It seems some here are deliberately misinterpreting what I mean to be saying. For that I am sorry.

Yes some men are jerks. So are some women.

iliel · Dec 18, 2003

Originally posted by mattsmom81
I don't see any point of staying in this conversation. It seems some here are deliberately misinterpreting what I mean to be saying. For that I am sorry.

it seems to be happening all over the board lately. Why don't you tell us what you ment and maybe this conversation can be started over!

SmilingBluEyes · Dec 19, 2003

Originally posted by mattsmom81
Yes some men are jerks. So are some women.

Agreed, although no one here is arguing that? I guess I am the one confused here. :confused:

TennNurse · Dec 19, 2003

Originally posted by mattsmom81
and we all know a few nurses who do what he describes..I work with several nurses who make it clear in obvious and more subtle ways that they are interested in an affair with a doctor. Trouble is they can make it hard for those who happen to be attractive but are NOT interested in this kind of relationship outside their marriage.

The old line with the nurse and doc in the broom closet is around for a reason...there's always a few around, unfortunately.

If the interest men show is not lewd, I always tended to take it as a compliment. Of course we need to make sure they get the message we are not interested. Refocusing the conversation to medical/patient issues works well.

Of course the bedbath comment regarding the OP is out of line...and I loved the comeback about the ice water...perfect!! We can accomplish a lot with humor and a 'look'.

As a middle aged nurse, I do I find it irritating when I see pretty young things reveling in the attention of a cluster of doctors, obviously flirting when patient issues need attention. After all...these doctors are only men aren't they...and female nurses need to be clear in their signals. JMHO.

We've come a long way baby...tho some in our midst do backslide.

Mattsmom, you do make a point with which it is impossible to argue. The fact is, there are some women out there who make the rest of us look bad. I've been reading this board for two years and I've never known you to post an opinion that wasn't thoughtful and professional. You and I both know that, as you so aptly put it, the broom closet myth is not one. As reasonable, intelligent women, we also know the difference between an admiring compliment to be accepted graciously and a grossly inept come-on. I'm a 30-year-old Southerner and I find it downright degrading when women around me shamelessly simper for the big handsome doctor. Ugh!

I think what so many here have responded to with such instinctive rebellion was skybird's suggestion that the OP had invited the overtures just by her nature of being friendly and at ease with her co-workers. All of us here know that our jobs are made both bearable and more enjoyable by the comraderie we establish with those around us, and for anyone to suggest that unwanted harassment was invited by such an innocent and normal human desire is horribly insulting. It's evidence that we still have a ways to go that we as women must still weigh and censor our every word and gesture for fear that we'll be blamed for "asking for it".

Here's hoping that, as far as we've come, we go still further.

skybirdrising · Dec 19, 2003

Originally posted by TennNurse
Mattsmom, you do make a point with which it is impossible to argue. The fact is, there are some women out there who make the rest of us look bad. I've been reading this board for two years and I've never known you to post an opinion that wasn't thoughtful and professional. You and I both know that, as you so aptly put it, the broom closet myth is not one. As reasonable, intelligent women, we also know the difference between an admiring compliment to be accepted graciously and a grossly inept come-on. I'm a 30-year-old Southerner and I find it downright degrading when women around me shamelessly simper for the big handsome doctor. Ugh!

I think what so many here have responded to with such instinctive rebellion was skybird's suggestion that the OP had invited the overtures just by her nature of being friendly and at ease with her co-workers. All of us here know that our jobs are made both bearable and more enjoyable by the comraderie we establish with those around us, and for anyone to suggest that unwanted harassment was invited by such an innocent and normal human desire is horribly insulting. It's evidence that we still have a ways to go that we as women must still weigh and censor our every word and gesture for fear that we'll be blamed for "asking for it".

Here's hoping that, as far as we've come, we go still further.

I simply stated a fact that many times women give men the wrong impression. I personally know of at least three married women who wear less than nothing underneath their scrubs and when they bend over, everyone around them recieves an education. I have had female nurses slightly but ever so evidently pat me on the butt. I think many women want to create a "tease"atmosphere where they control how far it goes. And then when the heat gets hot, they want to stop.

I am totally against what these doctors did to the OP. But I am also tired of the double standards that many women play these days. Many women do it as a power play. Anything to remove topp dog to get closer to their goal. Sexual harassment is horrific and I am clearly stating that women and men need to be aware fo their own actions before they start crying a bunch of BS.

LisaRN2B · Dec 19, 2003

Originally posted by skybirdrising
I simply stated a fact that many times women give men the wrong impression. I personally know of at least three married women who wear less than nothing underneath their scrubs and when they bend over, everyone around them recieves an education. I have had female nurses slightly but ever so evidently pat me on the butt. I think many women want to create a "tease"atmosphere where they control how far it goes. And then when the heat gets hot, they want to stop.

I am totally against what these doctors did to the OP. But I am also tired of the double standards that many women play these days. Many women do it as a power play. Anything to remove topp dog to get closer to their goal. Sexual harassment is horrific and I am clearly stating that women and men need to be aware fo their own actions before they start crying a bunch of BS.

Well, this is obviously an emotionally charged issue for you as well. I can see, with that explanation, why you responded to the OP the way you did. If the nurses are patting your butt...you must be a hottie...no, no, no..j/k :chuckle Really, that is sexual harrassment and is no more proper than a man sexually harrassing a woman.

But, skybirdrising, can we agree that the OP was not crying a bunch of BS, but rather coming to the BB here for some support in an uncomfortable situation? I know that there are males AND females who step out of line and sexually harrass in the workplace. Sounds to me though that the OP has not been flirting with these two guys or making remarks in return that would suggest she's teasing these men.

There's no double standard...men have been pulling these power trips on women for a long time. The "role reversal" where women are acting as the aggressor in these situations may in part transpire because the women who do this DO want that feeling of power. Certainly doesn't make it any more right if a woman does it...no more right than when a man does it.

If a woman makes you uncomfortable and says things or touches you inappropriately it is something you need to speak up about. And vice versa.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Dec 19, 2003

Originally posted by skybirdrising
I simply stated a fact that many times women give men the wrong impression.

I am totally against what these doctors did to the OP. But I am also tired of the double standards that many women play these days. Many women do it as a power play.

AND MEN DO THE EXACT SAME THINGS TO WOMEN, TOO!!!!!

I have long seen men play the same juvenile power games. It is not attractive to either gender.

dneill01 · Dec 19, 2003

This is not anything uncommon and is not acceptable but I do agree with the post regarding behavior or your looks. I have been around too long (13 years as a male nurse) and know that generally this behavior does not continue if it is obviously not appreciated. Laughing it off does not discourage it.

And no a miniskirt does not deem a rape but women must also take some responsibility. Dress like a loose one you usually will be treated like one, dress like a bum and again you will be treated like one, dress like a professional and you will generally be treated like one. This holds true in all aspects both men and women.

I am sick of hearing liberal women screaming they can do whatever they want and take no responsibility for what their effect may be on others. I also agree the double standard is extreme in this female dominated society. The doctors in question are dead wrong no doubt about but I ask that all take time to introspect.

Rapheal · Dec 19, 2003

I agree with most of the posters that if I encounter any more remarks I will have to state that I find this to be unaccetable and I expect to not hear any more of this or I will be taking it to management.

I do find it sad however that some people at work may take the attitude that I somehow deserve this (as some posters seem to think that maybe I said, or unconsciously flirted my way into provoking these comments) and treat or judge me unfairly.

I am always professional in demeanor and appearance. I am very careful to keep conversations neutral and never show any hint of interest in a relationship outside of work with any of my male co-workers. And as for my looks. Hmmm.....

dneill01 and skybirdrising- If you saw me and thought I was beautiful- would you think "What does she expect- she should know guys are going to act this way?"

If you saw me and thought I was ugly would you think" She must be making this up- just look at her?"

Is that what it comes down to for some people? Since I explained on my original post that I act and dress professional- what else comes to mind?

I truly respect the posters who gave advice and did not ask me to describe or defend my looks. Thank you.