Time to get real -

WorriedAbout2Morrow · Sep 13, 2011

Regardless, I get tired of these ranty, "I am SO SICK of X PEOPLE!" posts. Degrading and unnecessary.

My words exactly! Maybe the people who "are so sick of X people" are the ones who couldn't make it happen for themselves. :cool: When I wass a little bitty kid, I wanted to be an astronaut. With that being said, I'm glad no one got sick of me saying so. :twocents:

Isabelle49 · Sep 13, 2011

Anyone with only 6 months experience who becomes an NP or CRNA will not do patients any justice. I would prefer not having them care for me or anyone in my family. If it's all about the money, and I think it usually is, what a shame.

carolmaccas66, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2011

I think many new grads see all these TV programs where all these young things are climbing the ladder - they are all 25 years old and are senior nurses in some capacity or other.

Sorry, here in Oz at least it isn't going to happen. You need at least 5 years experience to be a NP here to even at least apply to the program, and you have to have 2 years of ED experience.

Being a lawyer might not be so hot either. Here's what I found on another blog site:

'Yay, you're a lawyer! Four years of grunt undergraduate work, 3 years of what is equivalent to mental bootcamp. A barrage of exams such as SATs, LSATs, ethics, BAR, county, etc, and now you are set and licensed to practice and everything.

It's not what you think.

-First off, unless your grades are in the top 15%, you won't get a "dream" job at a medium to large firm. Most don't. Even the brightest find out there are %15 people who are brighter than them.

-But even if you do, you work 80 hrs per week (no joke) until you exhaust yourself and keel over. The road to "Partner" is littered with associates. After 5 or so years, they can simply tell you, "You're not going to make partner. Go elsewhere." Five years down the drain. Yay!

-Medium to small sized firms aren't so bad b/c they don't work you to death, but you don't get paid as much ($120,000 at a large firm vs. $50,000 at a medium-small one). Which matters because...

-You have a $100,000 debt. No joke. Law school is expensive and while there are loans out there "perfect for law students," they mean perfect for them. So you will have a debt of $40,000 to $100,000, or more, depending on location and which school it is. Unless you are covered by family. In that case, you are in the %10 minority of what people refer to as "lucky bastards."

-Because of the above, don't even think about starting your own practice straight outta law school. Building a client base that is feasable for solo practice often takes years. You won't know what to do anyways - 80% of your law classes teach you THEORY, not practice. A seasoned paralegal at a firm knows more than an attorney who's been praciticing for five years. Yes, it's true. More than once have I seen a fresh face ask their secretary, "what does U.S.C. stand for?" If YOU don't know, it's ok - chances are, neither does your lawyer!

-Law isn't as glamarous as you think. You're not going to be Jack McCoy from "Law & Order," or Matlock, or anything. Ninety-five percent of your time is spent doing research; boring, tedious, torturous research. Three pecent will be devoted to your time with clients. The other two percent - you are in court, sitting on what seems to be legally-bounding uncomfortable church pews.

-Landing a job is hard, even if grades are good. Brown-nosing is what law students do well - future lawyers, remember? You must be good at "small talk" and "mixing," and all that crap. And good luck with mail-outs. Most don't even bother to respond, leaving you sucking wind while frantically trying to figure out how to pay your upcoming rent.

-your family won't understand the tremendous pressure law school and law practice takes. They'll still think of you as their normal "Ed," "John," "Kelly," or "Quinn," and won't understand if you can't go out or see them or call them sometimes. Prepare for familial and friend-related strife.

-Do you like wearing suits all day? If not suits, then maybe at least pants, and a dress shirt, and a TIE...ALWAYS a TIE. My neck is shrunk one size due to me wearing ties so much. Note to potential lawyers: If you step inside the place of business without a tie, you will die, at the hands of senior partners.

-If you go into criminal law, be prepared to defend the scum of the earth. Pedophiles, rapists, robbers, murderers, gangstas, white supremacists, and 12-year-old punks who torture animals in a way that would have made Mengele squirm. Sounds fun?

So: Don't go to law school unless you REALLY, REALLY want to be a lawyer. Read some books about law schools and working as a lawyer before you decide.

Yes, there are perks, like having your mom say, "My ______, the lawyer," but mostly it's not that great. Really. It's too late for me, but you have a choice....

wookieRN11 · Sep 13, 2011

..........As far as the hype of engineering, you can read about engineers being laid off, age discrimination seems to be an issue, outsourcing may be part of the issue and job opening depend on what you specialize in and how good you are and if your not naturally good in math and science what is the point of going into something you would be mediocre in. I remember back in the day with tech crashing and electrical engineers were trying to get electrician jobs in CA.

Yes this is so true. My father was a computer engineer on Navy ships back in the day, made pretty good money and got to travel, but then he was laid off and this was back in the mid 90's...Also with the age discrimination....he never went back to that job because he said no one would ever hire an old engineer!

cindyloowho · Sep 13, 2011

experience, while helpful, does not make a competent diagnostician. being smart, driven, dedicated, and educated are worth their weight in gold when it comes to being able to provide good patient care. new and old nurses can make great nps. some nurses float along for years not learning a thing while others research, investigate, ask questions, and learn. also, you learn to diagnose and treat by doing just that.

nursing experience is valuable, but there is no perfect timeframe for experience. also, please remember that once a person says they want to become an np...they must actually do a few years of school and clinical work. and many work as an rn while doing so as well, so more experience will inevitably get racked up by the time they get licensed and start to practice.

it's all about the person, and someone who is intelligent and driven can become an np regardless of how long he or she has been nursing. i have been cared for by some awful doctors who had been at it for years. some people just suck at what they do, regardless of time or credentials. and yet some people are wonderful at what they do and varying degrees of life experience can be shown. the original argument in this post is just jibber jabber imho, and i suspect there is some animosity towards those who hold more letters after their names.

sheronep, MSN, RN · Sep 13, 2011

I understand everyones side but what about the new grad nurse who doesnt give meds, barely comes to work, endangers the patients, and NOW is starting the NP program. Those are the ones who scare the heck outta me.

Jules A, MSN · Sep 13, 2011

experience, while helpful, does not make a competent diagnostician. being smart, driven, dedicated, and educated are worth their weight in gold when it comes to being able to provide good patient care. new and old nurses can make great nps. some nurses float along for years not learning a thing while others research, investigate, ask questions, and learn. also, you learn to diagnose and treat by doing just that.
nursing experience is valuable, but there is no perfect timeframe for experience. also, please remember that once a person says they want to become an np...they must actually do a few years of school and clinical work. and many work as an rn while doing so as well, so more experience will inevitably get racked up by the time they get licensed and start to practice.
it's all about the person, and someone who is intelligent and driven can become an np regardless of how long he or she has been nursing. i have been cared for by some awful doctors who had been at it for years. some people just suck at what they do, regardless of time or credentials. and yet some people are wonderful at what they do and varying degrees of life experience can be shown. the original argument in this post is just jibber jabber imho, and i suspect there is some animosity towards those who hold more letters after their names.

very well written and i think it is about the individual however a great practitioner will be even better with some experience in the field and a bad one will also probably benefit also. for some reason the flavor of the month now is focusing on school which in many cases doesn't involve adults working while in graduate school. :confused: in practice the only animosity i have seen toward those with advanced degrees is dependent on their skill set and motivation to actually do some work. if you hold a masters i expect more.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2011

from the aana web site:

while each accredited crna school varies slightly in admission requirements, it seems that there is a uniformity as it relates to minimum requirements:

what are the requirements for admission to a program?

the requirements for admission are:

a bachelor’s of science in nursing or another appropriate baccalaureate degree. (each program determines "appropriate" degrees and "approved" programs.)
a license as a registered nurse.
a minimum of one year of acute care nursing experience. (each program determines what constitutes "acute care" nursing.)

i asked several of our crna's what the requirements of their crna school were. all stated that they were required to have 2 years of icu, (not general floor nursing or even er experience) prior to acceptance, and all of them actually had more than 2 years by the time they were accepted.

i don't think we need to worry about new grads going straight into crna school in droves and driving down patient safety. our head crna said that people that did not have a very strong clinical background in critical care flat couldn't cut it in school.

Katie5 · Sep 13, 2011

I think many new grads see all these TV programs where all these young things are climbing the ladder - they are all 25 years old and are senior nurses in some capacity or other.
Sorry, here in Oz at least it isn't going to happen. You need at least 5 years experience to be a NP here to even at least apply to the program, and you have to have 2 years of ED experience.
Being a lawyer might not be so hot either. Here's what I found on another blog site:
'Yay, you're a lawyer! Four years of grunt undergraduate work, 3 years of what is equivalent to mental bootcamp. A barrage of exams such as SATs, LSATs, ethics, BAR, county, etc, and now you are set and licensed to practice and everything.
It's not what you think.
-First off, unless your grades are in the top 15%, you won't get a "dream" job at a medium to large firm. Most don't. Even the brightest find out there are %15 people who are brighter than them.
-But even if you do, you work 80 hrs per week (no joke) until you exhaust yourself and keel over. The road to "Partner" is littered with associates. After 5 or so years, they can simply tell you, "You're not going to make partner. Go elsewhere." Five years down the drain. Yay!
-Medium to small sized firms aren't so bad b/c they don't work you to death, but you don't get paid as much ($120,000 at a large firm vs. $50,000 at a medium-small one). Which matters because...
-You have a $100,000 debt. No joke. Law school is expensive and while there are loans out there "perfect for law students," they mean perfect for them. So you will have a debt of $40,000 to $100,000, or more, depending on location and which school it is. Unless you are covered by family. In that case, you are in the %10 minority of what people refer to as "lucky bastards."
-Because of the above, don't even think about starting your own practice straight outta law school. Building a client base that is feasable for solo practice often takes years. You won't know what to do anyways - 80% of your law classes teach you THEORY, not practice. A seasoned paralegal at a firm knows more than an attorney who's been praciticing for five years. Yes, it's true. More than once have I seen a fresh face ask their secretary, "what does U.S.C. stand for?" If YOU don't know, it's ok - chances are, neither does your lawyer!
-Law isn't as glamarous as you think. You're not going to be Jack McCoy from "Law & Order," or Matlock, or anything. Ninety-five percent of your time is spent doing research; boring, tedious, torturous research. Three pecent will be devoted to your time with clients. The other two percent - you are in court, sitting on what seems to be legally-bounding uncomfortable church pews.
-Landing a job is hard, even if grades are good. Brown-nosing is what law students do well - future lawyers, remember? You must be good at "small talk" and "mixing," and all that crap. And good luck with mail-outs. Most don't even bother to respond, leaving you sucking wind while frantically trying to figure out how to pay your upcoming rent.
-your family won't understand the tremendous pressure law school and law practice takes. They'll still think of you as their normal "Ed," "John," "Kelly," or "Quinn," and won't understand if you can't go out or see them or call them sometimes. Prepare for familial and friend-related strife.
-Do you like wearing suits all day? If not suits, then maybe at least pants, and a dress shirt, and a TIE...ALWAYS a TIE. My neck is shrunk one size due to me wearing ties so much. Note to potential lawyers: If you step inside the place of business without a tie, you will die, at the hands of senior partners.
-If you go into criminal law, be prepared to defend the scum of the earth. Pedophiles, rapists, robbers, murderers, gangstas, white supremacists, and 12-year-old punks who torture animals in a way that would have made Mengele squirm. Sounds fun?
So: Don't go to law school unless you REALLY, REALLY want to be a lawyer. Read some books about law schools and working as a lawyer before you decide.
Yes, there are perks, like having your mom say, "My ______, the lawyer," but mostly it's not that great. Really. It's too late for me, but you have a choice....

You must need us to wear glasses or something!

OhioCCRN, MSN, NP · Sep 13, 2011

Ever heard of burn out?

6 months of RN experience and straight into a NP program is not feasible and in MY opinion Utterly ridiculous.

NS teaches NOTHING about real world nursing and you need more than 6 months to become competent.

tele jelly · Sep 13, 2011

RN experience holds little bearing on practice as a NP or CRNA. They are sooo different. The NP/CRNA program IS what prepares you to practice, not how much prior experience you had doing a totally different job. That is what school is for....to prepare you for a new role. Don't hate on the nurse that has ambition! If you really disagree, be mad at the board of nursing/programs who set the standards, not the nurse to is trying to further their education!!

What experience did you have in the medical field before you became an RN?? I had none.

And as for NP programs taking "anyone who has tuition money," I scoff at. 50 people (that met entry qualifications) were turned away from my program this year!

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2011

rn experience holds little bearing on practice as a np or crna. they are sooo different. the np/crna program is what prepares you to practice, not how much prior experience you had doing a totally different job. that is what school is for....to prepare you for a new role. don't hate on the nurse that has ambition! if you really disagree, be mad at the board of nursing/programs who set the standards, not the nurse to is trying to further their education!!
what experience did you have in the medical field before you became an rn?? i had none.
and as for np programs taking "anyone who has tuition money," i scoff at. 50 people (that met entry qualifications) were turned away from my program this year!

can't speak to np school, but as already stated more than once in this thread, crna schools do require prior experience and consider it very relevant to future success in the program. some schools require significant critical care experience.