The abortion law builds on legislation passed in 2010 that represented a major shift for a traditionally Catholic country, transforming Spain into one of the most progressive countries in Europe on reproductive rights. Spain's constitutional court last week rejected a challenge by the right-wing Popular Party against allowing abortions in the first 14 weeks of pregnancy.
The debate will be heated in Spain, I imagine, as the conservative opposition pushes back. My daughter had horrible menstrual pain during her adolescence and young adulthood. I'm certain that she would have benefitted from that time.
ICE Agent Jonathan Ross drew his weapon, aimed at Renee Good's face, and fired 3 times. He meant to kill her, therefore it is murder. There might be a case for justifiable homicide, but as I said, not all the facts are known.
it occurs to me that so-called conservatives are rushing to judgment, while progressives like me want to know more.
ICE Agent Jonathan Ross drew his weapon, aimed at Renee Good's face, and fired 3 times. He meant to kill her, therefore it is murder. There might be a case for justifiable homicide, but as I said, not all the facts are known.
it occurs to me that so-called conservatives are rushing to judgment, while progressives like me want to know more.
Republican political leadership are setting the example. The VP seems to think that ICE have immunity in situations like these. Noem made claims about domestic terrorism. The POTUS furthered the delusion that the "victim viciously ran over" someone after he said he watched a video. Did his staff show him AI or some other video and mislead him? I would say that conservative media and this administration is directly feeding their audience misinformation and speculation.
ICE Agent Jonathan Ross drew his weapon, aimed at Renee Good's face, and fired 3 times. He meant to kill her, therefore it is murder. There might be a case for justifiable homicide, but as I said, not all the facts are known.
it occurs to me that so-called conservatives are rushing to judgment, while progressives like me want to know more.
Well since you are such an expert in all things law you certainly have heard of self defense.
Don't know what you mean by "so-called conservatives rushing to judgement". But I do know that many Democrats have been instigating people against Trump and ICE for a long time and the liberal media is more than happy to oblige them. Maybe you should tell your leaders to stop with their incendiary rhetoric that gives people crazy ideas and stirs them up to do stupid things, like decide to fight law enforcement for one. Seems to me they are not in fact "wanting to do more" to find the truth and keep the peace.
It doesn't take too much for some people to lose it and feel entitled to go ahead and insert themselves where they don't belong. Like I said there are better ways to handle things if you don't agree and/or like some laws. Your leaders should be encouraging that.
The legalities will be worked out no doubt but it sure looks like self defense so far. And let's not forget she was not merely coming at him and hit him with her car, she was already breaking the law and not following an officers commands.
ICE Agent Jonathan Ross drew his weapon, aimed at Renee Good's face, and fired 3 times. He meant to kill her, therefore it is murder. There might be a case for justifiable homicide,
Well, geez, yeah. That's the issue. Did the officer reasonably believe in that moment that she was an imminent threat to cause serious bodily injury to himself, the officer trying to get her out, or anyone else?
nursej22 said:
it occurs to me that so-called conservatives are rushing to judgment, while progressives like me want to know more.
LOL...are you serious? You're the one who first judged that the officer committed murder. That was yesterday when we knew far less then we do now. And then you repeated it again now right before you say you "want to know more".
So, now we do know a lot more. Including lots of video with audio in which we can watch for ourselves. What other information are you waiting for?
Here is another one of your Dem "leaders" showing her great leadership abilities by stirring things up with ridiculous rhetoric. How many more people will buy into this nonsense and then act on it?
"Rep. Jasmine Crockett, D-Texas, warned that nationwide protests will erupt unless an Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officer involved in a fatal shooting in Minneapolis, Minnesota, is identified and prosecuted, calling the incident a "state-sanctioned execution" as she accused Republicans and the administration of ignoring deadly misconduct.”
"There are gonna be protests around this entire country because of the state-sanctioned execution that we all saw unfold unless there is some kind of justice that takes place, and we get the name of that officer and that officer is prosecuted," Crockett said.“
Why is she saying there will be protests instead of reigning in the rhetoric, hmmm
and one more thing...I have no idea what she was talking about with Charlie Kirk. I guess she missed all the liberals on social media who were gleefully celebrating his death which was a murder.
These people are doing way more harm than good!
ICE agents do not have the authority to order citizens to exit their vehicles or to reach in to open the door. ICE agents may detain someone for whom they have a warrant.
Agent Ross did not achieve your stated goal of stopping the driver to protect himself or others. The car wheels were already turned to avoid him before she was shot. The vehicle continued to move, uncontrolled, until it crashed, endangering bystanders. The shots fired endangered bystanders as well.
For the umpteenth time, I am not a democrat and am not guided by democratic politicians. Rep. Crockett does not rep or lead me in Congress.
ICE agents do not have the authority to order citizens to exit their vehicles or to reach in to open the door. ICE agents may detain someone for whom they have a warrant.
Agent Ross did not achieve your stated goal of stopping the driver to protect himself or others. The car wheels were already turned to avoid him before she was shot. The vehicle continued to move, uncontrolled, until it crashed, endangering bystanders. The shots fired endangered bystanders as well.
For the umpteenth time, I am not a democrat and am not guided by democratic politicians. Rep. Crockett does not rep or lead me in Congress.
A quick search would tell you what authority ICE has, yes they can tell people to exit with probable cause which they obviously had.
It did achieve the goal bc she was not able to run him or anyone else over. Big difference between that and rolling and hitting another car.
As you pointed out she was shout in the face which means his aim was good, great even, to avoid innocent bystanders.
Crockett may not be your Rep but she is a Democrat who does influence others.
Who knows which Dems and/or media this one listened too and decided to take matters into her own hands without even thinking twice about her own, and her family's well being. Like I said I feel bad for these people who go off the rails most likely bc of listening to idiots who spew lies and nonsense.
ICE agents do not have the authority to order citizens to exit their vehicles or to reach in to open the door. ICE agents may detain someone for whom they have a warrant.
The car was blocking the road and interfering with ICE's operations. If it was a police officer within their jurisdiction, I know a police officer has the authority to order them out of the vehicle, and if they don't comply can remove them from the vehicle.
I imagine since they were interfering with ICE's operations, and ICE officer can do the same. I don't know that for fact though. So, I'm open to considering the source that leads you to believe that when you provide it.
Even if that's true that they don't have the authority, that isn't the time, place, or manner in which to resolve it. And has little to do in determining if the officer acted in self defense. I don't believe he was even the one ordering her to get out.
nursej22 said:
Agent Ross did not achieve your stated goal of stopping the driver to protect himself or others. The car wheels were already turned to avoid him before she was shot. The vehicle continued to move, uncontrolled, until it crashed, endangering bystanders. The shots fired endangered bystanders as well.
Irrelevant, and you don't know what he stopped her from doing as she didn't get the opportunity to do it.
You know, its possible to both mourne the women and the tragedy that happened and also acknowledge that she was in the wrong and is to blame for what happened.
Much of your commentary is irrelevant and/or factually incorrect.
So, let's try this another way.
You claim the ICE agent is responsible for murder.
The facts that we know right now:
The vehicle was blocking the road, and continued to block the road when the ICE vehicle with lights flashing approaches.
Law enforcement in uniform get out and instruct her several times to get out of the car.
She refuses, and backs up the vehicle.
One agent reaches in and tries to open the door.
Vehicle stops briefly.
Another agent is in front of the vehicle.
The vehicle propels forward when agent is still in front of vehicle.
Agent fires his gun three times. Driver is killed.
Law enforcement may use lethal force if the reasonably believe in the moment they or others are in imminent danger of serious bodily harm.
Go ahead and use the facts, apply them to the law, and make your case for murder.
The car was moving so slowly that there is no way it us proportionate to shoot a woman in a car in the face 4 times . They also jeopardized the lives if the other passengers. Hard-to-believe that someone would pick their kid up from school kid to harass ICE agents. The FBI, in their present form, is too politicized to investigate this. I know that if somehow, I had drone footage of the incident, I wouldn't release it to the FBI first.
The car was moving so slowly that there is no way it us proportionate to shoot a woman in a car in the face 4 times .
Maybe. I don't know that the number of shots does ir doesnt matter. I know I've often seen stories or actual video of other police shootings where the number of shots seemed excessive but apparently wasn't an issue.
subee said:
They also jeopardized the lives if the other passengers. Hard-to-believe that someone would pick their kid up from school kid to harass ICE agents.
There weren't other passengers. And if there had been, she endangered their lives.
She had just dropped off her kids, not picked them up.
She actually belonged to a group that organizes and harasses ICE.
Maybe. I don't know that the number of shots does ir doesnt matter. I know I've often seen stories or actual video of other police shootings where the number of shots seemed excessive but apparently wasn't an issue.
There weren't other passengers. And if there had been, she endangered their lives.
She had just dropped off her kids, not picked them up.
She actually belonged to a group that organizes and harasses ICE.
I've seen the video of the other passenger in the car. If she was obstructing traffic then she should have been cuffed and hauled off to the police station....not murdered.
nursej22, MSN, RN
5,259 Posts
ICE Agent Jonathan Ross drew his weapon, aimed at Renee Good's face, and fired 3 times. He meant to kill her, therefore it is murder. There might be a case for justifiable homicide, but as I said, not all the facts are known.
it occurs to me that so-called conservatives are rushing to judgment, while progressives like me want to know more.