Published
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/16/1157480905/spain-menstrual-leave-teen-abortion-trans-laws
QuoteThe abortion law builds on legislation passed in 2010 that represented a major shift for a traditionally Catholic country, transforming Spain into one of the most progressive countries in Europe on reproductive rights. Spain's constitutional court last week rejected a challenge by the right-wing Popular Party against allowing abortions in the first 14 weeks of pregnancy.
The debate will be heated in Spain, I imagine, as the conservative opposition pushes back. My daughter had horrible menstrual pain during her adolescence and young adulthood. I'm certain that she would have benefitted from that time.
nursej22 said:@Beerman, I was a little puzzled that you did not think the experience of the Oklahoma family was put through was cruel, and then it dawned on me that you must be only speaking to the part about the mistaken identity. I linked the whole story, and was commenting on the whole story, including the part about 20 agents busting through the door in the middle of the night, compelling the mother and her daughters to stand in the rain in their underwear, taking everything of value, and then not leaving a business card or any information on how to retrieve their belongings.
A lot to go through here. Let me start by asking why you thought to post this story in a political discussion? And, what was the reason for a warrant being issued?
Beerman said:A lot to go through here. Let me start by asking why you thought to post this story in a political discussion? And, what was the reason for a warrant being issued?
https://kfor.com/news/local/homeland-security-admits-oklahoma-raid-targeted-wrong-people/amp/
nursej22 said:
It doesn't make a difference. Sloppy and poorly conducted. No apologies made.
nursej22 said:
subee said:It doesn't make a difference. Sloppy and poorly conducted. No apologies made.
Wrong.
The search warrant is for a property that a suspect owns.
A judge signed off that there was enough probable cause for law enforcement to search the property to look for evidence of a crime.
They served the warrant on the correct property. Was evidence found?
Bad luck for the current tenants. Or perhaps they aren't as innocent as they're saying. It does seem a bit odd that a human trafficking house is now being rented out to strangers, and that those stranger's "life savings" is cash being stored at the house.
Beerman said:Seems a bit dramatic. I certainly don't feel that way and haven't heard anyone talk like that. I will say people are concerned, including myself about certain things. But my financial life hasn't changed and desperation certainly hasn't set in.
You should stay away from those Trump is in charge and the sky is falling commentators.
Stay away? They seek it purposly for fun. Kinda like a drug addict.
Beerman said:
Wrong.
The search warrant is for a property that a suspect owns.
A judge signed off that there was enough probable cause for law enforcement to search the property to look for evidence of a crime.
They served the warrant on the correct property. Was evidence found?
Bad luck for the current tenants. Or perhaps they aren't as innocent as they're saying. It does seem a bit odd that a human trafficking house is now being rented out to strangers, and that those stranger's "life savings" is cash being stored at the house.
The warrant was 2 weeks old and the names on the didn't live there anymore. If the correct people had been apprehended on decent evidence, I would be fine with. They are rushing too fast to make the hot dogs and not checking for rat poop in the meat.
Beerman said:Of course not.
I was replying to the assertion that "cruelty was the point",
Do you think they got the wrong people just cause they wanted to be cruel to these random folks who just happened to be in the house where the real suspects once lived?
Just as I said a few days ago, Trump haters overshoot when criticizing anything his administration does. Getting the wrong people deserves criticism. Saying it was intentional to inflict trauma on innocent people is political hyperbole. And those who consistently engage in it damage their credibility.
The issue is that Homeland Security held a middle of the night raid. When the homes resident said that warrant names not her, just moved in, mom + 3 young children in nightclothes told to leave home into rainy night that is when inflicting trauma occurred. Couldn't ONE of the 20 officers that showed up say hold on, check ID + rental documents to realize mistake.
KFor.com 4/30/25
Homeland Security admits Oklahoma raid targeted wrong people
Quote
....The actual subjects of the raid, we now know, were suspected human smugglers from Guatemala.
The Northern District of Oklahoma U.S. Attorney's office told KFOR that U.S. federal agents arrested eight Guatemalan Nationals during a set of raids across the country last Thursday as part of an operation cracking down on illegal immigration ordered by President Trump.
The names of the eight suspects they arrested are the same suspect names listed on the warrant served on Marissa's house, where none of them were located.
Telling KFOR, "Ice was carrying out a court-authorized search warrant for a large-scale human smuggling investigation. The search warrants included the location of an address where U.S. citizens recently moved. The previous residents were the intended targets.”
...Since our first report aired and was published, it gained international headlines, catching the attention of attorney Patrick Jaicomo.
"I opened my phone and saw this and just thought, here we go again,” said Jaicomo.
"Yesterday morning, I argued a case in the U.S. Supreme Court on behalf of a family from Atlanta who were the victims of a wrong house raid committed by the FBI, who simply failed to check the address on the house before they sent in a SWAT team,” said Jaicomo.
Jaicomo is with the Institute for Justice, a national nonprofit legal advocacy group....
..He says his group will represent Marissa for free too. Telling us her case fits a years-long pattern of questionable raids.
"Based on the facts as I understand them right now, there's no question that there was a lack of due diligence,” said Jaicomo.
Professor Joyce Vance Esg. commentary explains Not OK in Oklahoma
To understand the claims that federal agents improperly executed a search warrant on an Oklahoma Mom & her daughters, you need background. Here's the info on executing federal search warrants & whether there is any way to hold agents who get it wrong accountable.
QuoteSo, if the report is accurate, it was sloppy law enforcement work. Agents obtained a search warrant for a home, which requires "fresh" probable cause. Although the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals, where Oklahoma is located, doesn't have an explicit rule for how recent information must be to be fresh, when you're going to search someone's home for nondocumentary evidence, for instance, for drugs or guns which can be moved more frequently, judges often want to see probable cause within the last few days or at least the week. At a minimum, the agents had to believe the people they were investigating were concealing evidence of crimes at that location at the time they searched.
QuoteDespite that requirement, the agents were somehow unaware that the people whose residence they purportedly had probable cause to search no longer resided there. The agents either got the search warrant without double-checking or held off for longer than they should have before executing it. Under Rule 41 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, agents have 14 days to complete a search once a judge issues a warrant....
Because the family's identity hasn't been made public, it's not possible to find the warrant and review the details yet. If their description of events is accurate, this was a "daytime" warrant, meaning it couldn't be executed before 6 a.m. From the family's description, it sounds like it may have also been a so-called "no-knock" warrant, which permits agents to make entry without announcing themselves.
When executing a search warrant at a home, agents have to "knock and announce" their identity, authority, and purpose, and demand entry. They have to give the residents a reasonable amount of time to come to the door and open it before forcing their way in....
..As someone who worked in a U.S. Attorney's Office with federal agents for 25 years, I can tell you that this isn't how it's supposed to work. It should have been almost immediately apparent to the agents who were investigating the case and knew who their subjects were that they had the wrong people. As soon as agents were alerted that they had the wrong people, they should have confirmed the information and discovered their mistake. Forcing young girls to stand outside in their underwear in the rain conjures up visions of other authoritarian regimes. It is not acceptable here...
subee said:.My husband's banker chased hom down today to try to sell him some investment. Chase must be demanding that their portfolio managers try an unload their falling garbage onto their clients. Biden didn't create this mess. I haven't seen this desperation since 2008 when I lost 42% of my IRA. I haven't seen the economy to be as shaky as this since Lehman Brothers folded.
Perhaps Chase might now to buy stock that they know will eventually rise while the prices are low?
The economic downturn and losses in the stock market are all Trump's fault.
When the stock market made a dramatic drop after Trump announced his around the world tarrifs, it certainly reminded of how I felt in2008 and it didn't feel good. Unlike then though things didn't continue to go south and millions weren't being laid off. So the sky isn't falling....yet.
I will say my day to day financial situation hasn't changed because I still make the same salary and I work the same hours. But I can't help wonder what those large losses earlier (some of which have come back but I'm still about $30K less than before) is going to do to my long term plans. Like polls are showing, count me in the camp that's pessimistic and doesn't approve of how the economy is going.
subee said:You must not have an IRA. It is a sign if a bank salesman is cold calling their customers to sell what is crashing. We are paying federal employees not to come to work now (when cases are awaiting in SCOTUS). Trump didn't foresee this.?
The DJIA is 2000 points higher than it was in August. It's been pretty stable for weeks. Not crashing. I don't need to touch my IRA or 401k etc for 15 ish years. So, no. No sense of desperation.
"Bankers are cold calling trying to sell what is crashing?" LOL...sure
Beerman, BSN
4,428 Posts
Seems a bit dramatic. I certainly don't feel that way and haven't heard anyone talk like that. I will say people are concerned, including myself about certain things. But my financial life hasn't changed and desperation certainly hasn't set in.
You should stay away from those Trump is in charge and the sky is falling commentators.