I traditionally have a thread heading to the election, here we go.
Get out the popcorn for this one.
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Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is expected to formally announce next week he is running for president in 2024, NBC News reported Thursday, citing two sources familiar with the matter.
The governor's official entry into the Republican primary field will put him head-to-head with former President Donald Trump, the party's current frontrunner for the nomination. Trump has already spent months treating DeSantis as his primary campaign rival, thrashing him with torrents of criticism over his gubernatorial record, his political skills and his personality.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Tweety said:
Agree. Saying the reasons why you approve of Biden's performance (lower inflation, low unemployment, etc.) doesn't mean that people that disapprove for other reasons (the border, crime, the Israel-Hamas War (Democrats are voicing their disapproval), etc.) doesn't mean they are a victim of propaganda. We all see the world and interpret what's important to us.
I read a poll a few months ago that the disapproval rating of both Trump and Biden are pretty low and equal. Which is interesting because they are likely to be the choices next year.
I also read a poll that nearly 1/3rd of Americans don't believe the election results and that Trump lost. That's stunning to me and I think we can come with examples of "propaganda works".
The best modern examples of the power of propaganda are Trump and the 2020 election and the January 6th attempt to undo the vote results. Those victims of propaganda literally believe fabrications about elections and an insurrection. Their preferred media have them believing lies. Those believers will reelect the primary author of that propaganda, given the chance.
Meanwhile, we are all supposed to forget that Trump has been talking about retribution for months and months. Trump is trying to convince us that he doesn't really want to change the constitution and his fan club is busily acting like they don't know who Trump is. Propaganda had the GOP voting base completely numb to the idea of dismantling our democracy for Trump's petty political aspirations.
So if someone says inflation is out of control, and all reputable sources say it is lower than a year ago, is that ignoring facts or consumption of propaganda?
So if someone says inflation is out of control, and all reputable sources say it is lower than a year ago, is that ignoring facts or consumption of propaganda?
Let's stick to the discussion that is happening and not venture into a hypothetical one.
You said "inflation is down", and then insulted those who don't see that as a reason to give Biden a good job approval rating.
While the rate of inflation is down, it's higher than it ever was under Trump.
Since inflation is compounding, looking at cumlative inflation is also important. Right now it's about 18% during the Biden years vs 8% during the Trump years.
As for the rate of inflation slowing down, that is largely due to interest rates being increased. Not because of anything Biden did.
So, in my estimation, anyone giving Biden kudos for "inflation being down" are likely buying into the propaganda being put out there by the Biden White House.
So if someone says inflation is out of control, and all reputable sources say it is lower than a year ago, is that ignoring facts or consumption of propaganda?
Probably people that say "inflation is out of control" given the current situation aren't up to date on things and reading propaganda.
However, if someone says "inflation hits new lows! Thank you Joe Biden", that's a bit much as well. The current rate of inflation is higher than the target set by the feds (as some inflation has benefits) and not good. If someone points this out, it's more truth than propaganda.
It's really hard to compare presidencies because of world circumstances. Trump ended with some pretty miserable numbers but world events like covid were a culprit. Also some of those very same events kept inflation down so to compare things like unemployment and inflation without taking into consideration world events isn't something I'm interested in.
World events like war and covid ending likewise affected things like inflation. While I think it's fair to say inflation has come down, it's not fair to say "well under Trump it was better". Just like it's not fair to say things like under Trump the economic growth was slow at the end of his presidency. Apples and oranges.
I'm happy to see inflation down, Biden effect or not. It still isn't at the target 2% but I'm glad runaway price increases seems to month to month settled down some.
I was happy with the good economic news up until covid under Trump. I filled up half a tank of gas today because it's at a new low I haven't seen around here in a long time.
Covid wasn't the culprit. It was Trump's response that was malicious and ignorant.
Covid wasn't the culprit. It was Trump's response that was malicious and ignorant.
Covid was a worldwide phenomenon. Even those that had a good response experienced low inflation and high unemployment. So yes, covid was the culprit, at least mostly, in the conversation we were having. My main point being worldwide situations were going on that lead to some things like low inflation, high inflation, unemployment, supply chain, etc. So comparing only numbers between Biden and Trump doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I'm not giving Trump a pass on his covid reaction. He recommended lockdowns and then cried "free Michigan" and demonized science. I understand that. We've been there and done that with that conversation.
Let's stick to the discussion that is happening and not venture into a hypothetical one.
You said "inflation is down", and then insulted those who don't see that as a reason to give Biden a good job approval rating.
While the rate of inflation is down, it's higher than it ever was under Trump.
Since inflation is compounding, looking at cumlative inflation is also important. Right now it's about 18% during the Biden years vs 8% during the Trump years.
As for the rate of inflation slowing down, that is largely due to interest rates being increased. Not because of anything Biden did.
So, in my estimation, anyone giving Biden kudos for "inflation being down" are likely buying into the propaganda being put out there by the Biden White House.
In my original statement I also included low unemployment and not having troops in any wars as a positive for Biden. One poster here singled out the concept of inflation.
As the world came out of the pandemic, inflation also hit worldwide. According to reliable sources, it is lower in the US than many places. But people don't see that or won't see that, they only look at the former guy who was coasting on Obama's economy, which was starting to dwindle just as COVID hit.
I know we've had this discussion in the past as to when a President can take credit or blame for an economy. It appears to me that it is about 2-3 years into an administration.
I still think there are stupid people out there who refuse to look critically at news reports and would rather listen sources that tell them what they want to hear.
I still think there are stupid people out there who refuse to look critically at news reports and would rather listen sources that tell them what they want to hear.
Say it loud to the people in the back. I so agree with that. Remember during inflation and rising fuel costs people were putting stickers on gas pumps "Biden did that". Now it's "Biden did nothing to bring inflation down".
Anyway, as I've said before like it or not the sitting President gets the brunt of people's angst.
As I've also said before whenever the news is good people from the other side of the aisle will spin it as not so good.
While the law may not have crimped inflation over the past year, it could well do more in that regard going forward, since it just now is starting to be implemented. Along with the CHIPS Act, there are also signs that the Inflation Reduction Act helped to stimulate roughly $500 billion in corporate announcements to invest in new factories. This has potentially helped to strengthen the job market despite efforts to bring down the inflation that many economists believed would pull the United States into a recession. That recession — as Biden predicted — has not materialized.
In my original statement I also included low unemployment and not having troops in any wars as a positive for Biden. One poster here singled out the concept of inflation.
That was me. Please give credit where credit is due.
I did that because the idea was put out there that people don't think Biden is doing a good job because they were consumers of propaganda. "Inflation being down" being credited to Biden was the low-hanging fruit to not only disprove that theory but also to show how Biden supporters seem to be the ones eating up Bidenomics propaganda.
We could discuss other things. How about unemployment? Obama's unemployment rate plateued between the high 4's and 5% his last year plus in office. It was 3.5% under Trump until covid hit. Unemployment for blacks was the lowest since that record had been kept. Poverty rate was at it's lowest in decades.
We discussed inflation rate was lower under Trump than it is now. Trump didn't get us into any new wars. Economic growth was slightly better under Trump than Obama. You must have been really happy with Trump's first three years?
nursej22 said:
As the world came out of the pandemic, inflation also hit worldwide. According to reliable sources, it is lower in the US than many places. But people don't see that or won't see that, they only look at the former guy who was coasting on Obama's economy, which was starting to dwindle just as COVID hit.
That's a different argument. And I agree and have said before that inflation isn't entirely his fault. But he did throw gas on that fire.
Of course, that's my opinion and debatable. But, to say inflation is down under him and crediting him for it the same as giving him credit for throwing gas a fire and then applauding him for putting out the fire as the gas burns off.
Is this notion that inflation being down a result of propaganda, misinformation, or what exactly?
I'm unaware of Trump's economy "dwindling" before covid. Sounds like more digested propaganda.
We could discuss other things. How about unemployment? Obama's unemployment rate plateued between the high 4's and 5% his last year plus in office. It was 3.5% under Trump until covid hit. Unemployment for blacks was the lowest since that record had been kept. Poverty rate was at it's lowest in decades.
We discussed inflation rate was lower under Trump than it is now. Trump didn't get us into any new wars. Economic growth was slightly better under Trump than Obama. You must have been really happy with Trump's first three years?
To be fair Obama inherited the Great Recession and unemployment was dropping when Trump came on and it continued not because of much Trump did. Apples and oranges. But we can't help ourselves and compare Presidents by the numbers without a deeper dive.
But by those metrics I was quite happy with the Trump years. One can cherry pick stats that make us feel good. But I was okay as I was working, saving and my 401K recovered from the Great Recession and had good healthcare.
My 401K crashed during Biden's time and still isn't back to the high it was in 2021. I'm not 100% going to vote for Biden, but I'm 100% not voting for Trump. At least Biden believes in Democracy and doesn't try to interfere with that.
I've posted this summary before, it's not all pretty.
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The statistics for the entirety of Donald Trump's time in office are nearly all compiled. As we did for his predecessor four years ago, we present a final look at the numbers.
The economy lost 2.9 million jobs. The unemployment rate increased by 1.6 percentage points to 6.3%.
Paychecks grew faster than inflation. Average weekly earnings for all workers were up 8.7% after inflation.
After-tax corporate profits went up, and the stock market set new records. The S&P 500 index rose 67.8%.
The international trade deficit Trump promised to reduce went up. The U.S. trade deficit in goods and services in 2020 was the highest since 2008 and increased 40.5% from 2016.
The number of people lacking health insurance rose by 3 million.
The federal debt held by the public went up, from $14.4 trillion to $21.6 trillion.
Home prices rose 27.5%, and the homeownership rate increased 2.1 percentage points to 65.8%.
Illegal immigration increased. Apprehensions at the Southwest border rose 14.7% last year compared with 2016.
Coal production declined 26.5%, and coal-mining jobs dropped by 16.7%. Carbon emissions from energy consumption dropped 11.5%.
Handgun production rose 12.5% last year compared with 2016, setting a new record.
The murder rate last year rose to the highest level since 1997.
Trump filled one-third of the Supreme Court, nearly 30% of the appellate court seats and a quarter of District Court seats.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Tweety said:
Probably people that say "inflation is out of control" given the current situation aren't up to date on things and reading propaganda.
However, if someone says "inflation hits new lows! Thank you Joe Biden", that's a bit much as well. The current rate of inflation is higher than the target set by the feds (as some inflation has benefits) and not good. If someone points this out, it's more truth than propaganda.
Inflationary rates not meeting goals while still on a desirable trajectory is not the same as out of control inflation. Pointing out that goals aren't met is truth but it doesn't support the propaganda that inflation is out of control.
Beerman said:
That was me. Please give credit where credit is due.
I did that because the idea was put out there that people don't think Biden is doing a good job because they were consumers of propaganda. "Inflation being down" being credited to Biden was the low-hanging fruit to not only disprove that theory but also to show how Biden supporters seem to be the ones eating up Bidenomics propaganda.
We could discuss other things. How about unemployment? Obama's unemployment rate plateued between the high 4's and 5% his last year plus in office. It was 3.5% under Trump until covid hit. Unemployment for blacks was the lowest since that record had been kept. Poverty rate was at it's lowest in decades.
We discussed inflation rate was lower under Trump than it is now. Trump didn't get us into any new wars. Economic growth was slightly better under Trump than Obama. You must have been really happy with Trump's first three years?
That's a different argument. And I agree and have said before that inflation isn't entirely his fault. But he did throw gas on that fire.
Of course, that's my opinion and debatable. But, to say inflation is down under him and crediting him for it the same as giving him credit for throwing gas a fire and then applauding him for putting out the fire as the gas burns off.
Is this notion that inflation being down a result of propaganda, misinformation, or what exactly?
I'm unaware of Trump's economy "dwindling" before covid. Sounds like more digested propaganda.
Trump may take credit for the employment and economic trends that he inherited, but there is no evidence in the data or the legislative or WH record that Trump did anything to improve those trend or positively changed their trajectory. He coasted, boasted and then crashed when tested by COVID.
The actual data doesn't really support the claim that Biden fueled inflation. I provided citations that discussed and disputed that notion at an earlier date.
Why do I feel like we've already had the discussion and looked at the data around Trump's economy ? There just isn't any evidence of some genius. He grew the debt and deficit while home prices went up and the wealthy got a big tax break.
toomuchbaloney
16,092 Posts
The best modern examples of the power of propaganda are Trump and the 2020 election and the January 6th attempt to undo the vote results. Those victims of propaganda literally believe fabrications about elections and an insurrection. Their preferred media have them believing lies. Those believers will reelect the primary author of that propaganda, given the chance.
Meanwhile, we are all supposed to forget that Trump has been talking about retribution for months and months. Trump is trying to convince us that he doesn't really want to change the constitution and his fan club is busily acting like they don't know who Trump is. Propaganda had the GOP voting base completely numb to the idea of dismantling our democracy for Trump's petty political aspirations.