Texas governor to residents: "The safest place for you is at your home" due Covid-19 spike

Guest1142305 · Jul 11, 2020

2 hours ago, JennyBear said:
Sadly the only "gross misrepresentation" is you now posting a link that has nothing at all to do with your original assertion which was that COVID-19 deaths were largely the 70+ elderly in Skilled Nursing Homes. (try looking up the median age on residents in these institutions some time)
Not only doens't your link support that , but you've now included the death 65+.
PS - no excuses necessary.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/us/doctor-family-florida-reopening-coronavirus/index.html

My bad for being 5 years off on my age brackets.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html

I wasn’t wrong that a disproportionate quantity happened to die in nursing homes.

HandsOffMySteth · Jul 11, 2020

On 7/10/2020 at 5:04 PM, JennyBear said:
We've already surpassed our entire loss of life in the world wars. With no end in sight. 150k deaths of people, most of whom near certainly would not be dead if there had been a competent and benevolent federal response to this virus when it surfaced in January instead of a willful misinformation campagin.

US COVID deaths = 135,953

US WW1 + WW2 deaths = 521,915

And you are also saying that our mortality rate from COVID is higher than the rest of the world?

A Hit With The Ladies, BSN, RN · Jul 11, 2020

Also keep in mind that the wars were human-caused events, whereas a virus is a natural biologic phenomena and thus not human beings' fault. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison here.

Guest1142305 · Jul 11, 2020

13 hours ago, A Hit With The Ladies said:
Also keep in mind that the wars were human-caused events, whereas a virus is a natural biologic phenomena and thus not human beings' fault. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison here.

Careful now, you are being rational. Most human beings short circuit their rationality and jump to conclusions based on emotional impetus long before they reach objective opinions. The herd punishes those who rise above mediocrity.

londonflo · Jul 12, 2020

On 7/6/2020 at 8:44 PM, damiorifice said:
Any study claiming statistical significance regarding the effectiveness of facial masks at hindering the transmission of COVID-19 during this period is junk science. There is a saying in statistics, junk in junk out

Then why are you posting studies that say masks are not effective? The same logic applies.

Guest1142305 · Jul 12, 2020

On 7/11/2020 at 8:28 PM, londonflo said:
Then why are you posting studies that say masks are not effective? The same logic applies.

You selectively quoted me for effect, that is disingenuous.

My original statement answered your question.

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In this instance older studies from similar, but different pandemics, hold more weight.

londonflo · Jul 12, 2020

On 7/11/2020 at 8:37 PM, damiorifice said:
My original statement answered your question

This the article I was referring to that you posted.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data

The majority of this article focuses on this study.

Quote
MacIntyre CR, Seale H, Dung TC, et al. A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers.BMJ Open 2015 Apr 22;5(4):e006577. This study was reprinted in BMJ in March, 2020

After further review the authors published this additional commentary (March 2020)

Quote
At the time of the study, there had been very little work done in this space, and so little thought into how to improve the protective value of the cloth masks. Until now, most guidelines on PPE did not even mention cloth masks, despite many health workers in Asia using them.
Health workers are asking us if they should wear no mask at all if cloth masks are the only option. Our research does not condone health workers working unprotected. We recommend that health workers should not work during the COVID-19 pandemic without respiratory protection as a matter of work health and safety.

I was speaking of the post you made concerning this study.

Guest1142305 · Jul 12, 2020

There were 52 citations made by those two vastly qualified respiratory illness experts that they used to come to their conclusion. Again, you are misconstruing what is really happening here to fit your narrative.

londonflo · Jul 12, 2020

8 minutes ago, damiorifice said:
There were 52 citations made by those two vastly qualified respiratory illness experts that they used to come to their conclusion. Again, you are misconstruing what is really happening here to fit your narrative.

The 2015 study was the most recent - some went back to 1935. Most of the articles were reviews of the literature and were written by qualified respiratory experts. I just have a different opinion than you on the value of masks. I see no harm in the use of masks and know the healthcare profession employs strategies that are logical and sensible if something cannot be proven but causes no harm.

Guest1142305 · Jul 12, 2020

13 minutes ago, londonflo said:
The 2015 study was the most recent - some went back to 1935. Most of the articles were reviews of the literature and were written by qualified respiratory experts. I just have a different opinion than you on the value of masks. I see no harm in the use of masks and know the healthcare profession employs strategies that are logical and sensible if something cannot be proven but causes no harm.

I can’t disagree with that. Truth be told, my objection to masks mostly stems from the idea that we are attempting to delay something that cannot be stopped. Mortality numbers are so low for the young it would make more statistical sense to intentionally infect everyone under age 30 with a very small viral load and let the dominos fall. I’m sure many wouldn’t be too delighted with that game of Russian roulette. Thankfully, that kind of draconian measure simply can’t happen in a country that values freedom, just as mandating we stay in our houses like rats in a cage and wear PPE everywhere we go isn’t going to happen. It’s a double edged sword.

If it turns out to be the case that robust T cell mediated immunity is the result of infection with COVID since those recovered with disappearing antibodies don’t seem to become severely ill again, then our best path forward is intentionally spreading this to the healthy until there are less vectors for transmission.

This appears to be the collective will of he populace at this point. Genie is out of the bottle and all. Locking down again will result in much worse riots. The riots were getting scary, and the police brutality narrative was just an excuse for anarchy. That scares me more than Covid. I don’t want to live in a collapsed society.

toomuchbaloney · Jul 12, 2020

3 minutes ago, damiorifice said:
I can’t disagree with that. Truth be told, my objection to masks mostly stems from the idea that we are attempting to delay something that cannot be stopped. Mortality numbers are so low for the young it would make more statistical sense to intentionally infect everyone under age 30 with a very small viral load and let the dominos fall. I’m sure many wouldn’t be too delighted with that game of Russian roulette. Thankfully, that kind of draconian measure simply can’t happen in a country that values freedom, just as mandating we stay in our houses like rats in a cage and wear PPE everywhere we go isn’t going to happen. It’s a double edged sword.

If it turns out to be the case that robust T cell mediated immunity is the result of infection with COVID since those recovered with disappearing antibodies don’t seem to become severely ill again, then our best path forward is intentionally spreading this to the healthy until there are less vectors for transmission.
This appears to be the collective will of he populace at this point. Genie is out of the bottle and all. Locking down again will result in much worse riots.

There were no riots because of stay at home orders.

londonflo · Jul 12, 2020

36 minutes ago, damiorifice said:
This appears to be the collective will of he populace at this point.

At least it is the opinion here of the most vocal commentators. My community might have a different vote. I see many using masks, though not as many as should be. I am retired recently because of pulmonary fibrosis - I never planned on retiring this early but was foolish in not staying home with sick days longer when I had multiple pneumonias and have a tremendous amount of scarring. I spent my entire professional life working and teaching in acute care. You know what? I am not ready to lay down and die so that someone else can walk around with out a mask! I am complying with all the wisdom directed my way by experts in infectious disease but am insulted by comments such as "they were going to die anyway." I am cross because the covidiots think they are the most important people in the world!