Sure to Get Flamed for This

Time to don the fireproof underwear. It is 0500 and the reality alarm clock is ringing, and some people do not like to hear it go off. So whether you agree with me or not, I feel it is time to inject a little thought provoking ideas into your life. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

I am sure I am about to get flamed for posting this, but I feel the need to anyways. I have been seeing these threads talking about bullying and teachers or preceptors hating the students, and new nurses or abusing them because of some perceived slight or injustice. Well guess what?

The world is a hard cold nasty place that does not need to be polite to you or worry whether your feelings got hurt and you feel offended. You need to grow up and realize that the abuse that you claim is rampant, or the bullying that you experience all the time is not their problem, but rather your problem.

I see so many posts about this and I wonder how some of these people have survived as long as they have. School is tough? Deal with it. You think that someone else is getting it easier? Well too bad, they may be but no one ever promised you everything would be fair. You have to learn that there is inequality in life. It's how you overcome that inequality that matters. It teaches perseverance.

Abusive teachers? Maybe they are trying to get the best in you to come out. What you think is abuse maybe is pushing you to your limits, to get you further along in your potential. So your feelings got hurt at school, grow up, feelings get hurt every day.

Your preceptor is unorganized and does not like you and bad mouths you to your manager, and all your patients love you but no one at the hospital sees how great you really are?

Well your preceptor may actually have great time management skill, but when having to slow down and teach someone their job, things do tend to get disorganized. You may be part of the blame there.

Did you ever stop to think that you are the proverbial monkey wrench in a well oiled machine? The need to teach you, and I realize you do need to learn, can be very time consuming. They may tell your manager that you need improving or that you are not advancing fast enough. They may be all smiles to you, because they want to support you and keep you positive, but they need to tell the manager how you really are.

Speaking of orientation, how often have I seen statements that say the other nurses are not supportive and will not answer questions. Have you ever thought that maybe you are asking TOO MANY questions?

After a bit it may seem that you are not retaining the info provided and everyone gets tired of answering the same questions over and over. Part of learning is knowing when to shut your mouth and just watch. It has been said by people wiser than me that the only question you should ask is the question that you already know the answer to. If that does not make sense to you, think about it for a while and you might just be surprised that a light comes on.

So basically what i am saying is grow up and act like the adult that you are. Life is not fair, school is not fair, work is not fair. You just have to learn to deal with it.

If I had to guess, I would say the OP may have been accused of bullying...

I think the experienced nurses have to try to remember a time when they were new and didnt know anything about nursing and try to have some empathy for new nurses. Why doesn't an experienced nurse show some patience with the inexperienced nurse? Why do you show patience with your patients then turn around and act the opposite towards your co-workers? It only makes you look two-faced and phoney. What's wrong with asking a question? What's wrong with asking it 3 times? Get over it. That's where patience comes in. I think a lot of this nurses eat their young boils down to an insecurity over their position at their job. If they are nasty to the new nurses such as excluding them from conversations like we are in middleschool, answering questions in an incomplete and abrupt manner so as to make it so the new nurse doesnt want to ask questions anymore, setting new rns up for failure, picking their report to death to make them feel incompetent, well by golly you may have just about run them off the floor and your job is safe! Or you made them look so utterly incompetent compared to you that you are sure they could never possibly think to get rid of you. So I would say that the reason for some people's behavior is pretty transparent. I was a server for 5 years which is a female dominant profession just like nursing, and no matter if you're a food server or a nurse, women all treat eachother the same. I wonder why with all this catty behavior going on it is just so difficult for nursing to be seen as more professional. We always seem to demand this yet do not support eachother, so how are we ever going to get there?

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FlyingScot good for you, it looks like you have the right attitude. It seems to me that there are scores of nursing students and new grads who are conscientious and want to learn as much as they can from all nurses who teach them. There are also those, hopefully a small minority, who got into nursing because of what they read in Cosmo or whatever and want things given to them on a silver platter. Although I've never precepted, I have had many students caring for my patients. Many of them are in the former category, but I've also had a few that fit into the latter. So in my experience we're talking about the minority of people here. I support you in being firm (but fair) with that group because the lives of your facility's patients will be in their hands. If you get flak from a surly student, enlist your ANM. The newbie needs to learn early that they must come to work ready to learn and that their attitude might get between them and passing probation.

I know this new nurse well enough to feel sure she is conscientious and will appreciate my (kind, but firm) feedback. I will keep u posted, however. :)

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Everything you ever learned in nursing school, before nursing school or after nursing school is something you could have looked up. I am sure you must have had a 4.0 because you surely looked everything up and did not have to ask. People who ask me directions could Google it or use GPS, but I don't tell them that, I help them whenever I can. That is why I elected to become a nurse after having a doctorate in another arena. Why don't you try looking up the word kindness, or the meaning of the word compassion? As for slowing you down, every nurse, including you, had a time that they slowed down a more experienced nurse when trying to learn something. Your attitude discourages students from asking questions, and that is a dangerous thing. If you do no have the heart or the patience to be a preceptor, do everyone a favor and DON'T. Your attitude and unkindness, lack of understanding and patience causes me to question whether you have the qualities to even be a nurse or a teacher.

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I am getting flamed by a fewer than I thought..LOL

There have been a few "negative" commentsw directed at me but I am an adult and can take those without feeling like I am being bullied. :up: So for a few of those people let me tell you about myself a little bit. Yes I am a nurse, been doing this going on 25+ years. I am former Special Forces. I worked my way through school and have two wonderful boys who are in college. I taught them early on that they will not succeed in everything, and that is ok, but do not quit trying. That is how you get better. Losing and failing are pluses. They teach you how to be a gracious winner. I also told them never to strat a battle or pick a fight, but rather if they find theselves in one they better darn well finish the it. That is how you defeat bullies. You have to stand up to them and stand your ground.

As for my statement about questions, it may be an "old trial lawyer" thing but I was told it by a grillzed old Saregent in the military, and it really took hold. It was explained by another poster. The fact that some still don't get it after it being explained really does say alot to me. Sometimes the answer to the question is not heard by your ears, but rather answered by your eyes.

I am one of the easiest going people that you would ever meet. I don't eat my young (except they do taste good with BBQ sauce), I do not stress out iver things, I realize there are more than one way to do things and I realize that life is too short to worry about most things. I also learned early on in life that life is not fair, nothing good is really ever handed to you and not everyone is going to be a wiinner.

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As for my statement about questions, it may be an "old trial lawyer" thing but I was told it by a grillzed old Saregent in the military, and it really took hold. It was explained by another poster. The fact that some still don't get it after it being explained really does say alot to me. Sometimes the answer to the question is not heard by your ears, but rather answered by your eyes. QUOTE

This is one of the silliest excuses for incivility I have seen here at AN in a while. and doesn't apply to your "quote" of the lawyer thing, two vastly different things.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Bullying is not the bully's problem but the victims? Wow.

I thought the point was that what is described by the "victim" as "bullying" is really just an interaction that the "victim" didn't like and not bullying at all.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
I've been on both sides of the preceptor equation.

1. I've had instructors who actually were bullies. I just gritted my teeth and dealt with them, but to this day I have no respect for them.

2. I've had preceptors that swanned off to a 2 hr inservice and didn't even bother to tell me they were going off the floor. It was a nerve-wracking shift, but it did improve my self-confidence. I figured I must be doing ok if they trusted me with their patients that long.

3. I've been "fired" as a preceptor by a student who didn't "feel comfortable" with me. I wasn't mean to her; I just got her to do things she hadn't done before, like tally up intake and output. This was 3 months before her graduation. I was trying to save her from eventually being thrown to the wolves. Oh, well.

4. I've also been required to precept students without any feedback mechanism. At 1400 h they just left the floor for their post-conference without even checking in with me. I would find all kinds of errors and omissions. But there was no form to fill out, no instructor contact, nothing. No way to convey to the student areas of strength and weakness. I enjoy teaching but did not appreciate being used as an unpaid babysitter. (There was no preceptor pay for having a student.)

I think instructors and preceptors need to be tough without being bullies. I think students and new grads need to be tough. Nursing is a tough job.

Wish I could like this MORE...

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
If I had to guess, I would say the OP may have been accused of bullying...

I think the experienced nurses have to try to remember a time when they were new and didnt know anything about nursing and try to have some empathy for new nurses. Why doesn't an experienced nurse show some patience with the inexperienced nurse? Why do you show patience with your patients then turn around and act the opposite towards your co-workers? It only makes you look two-faced and phoney. What's wrong with asking a question? What's wrong with asking it 3 times? Get over it. That's where patience comes in. I think a lot of this nurses eat their young boils down to an insecurity over their position at their job. If they are nasty to the new nurses such as excluding them from conversations like we are in middleschool, answering questions in an incomplete and abrupt manner so as to make it so the new nurse doesnt want to ask questions anymore, setting new rns up for failure, picking their report to death to make them feel incompetent, well by golly you may have just about run them off the floor and your job is safe! Or you made them look so utterly incompetent compared to you that you are sure they could never possibly think to get rid of you. So I would say that the reason for some people's behavior is pretty transparent. I was a server for 5 years which is a female dominant profession just like nursing, and no matter if you're a food server or a nurse, women all treat eachother the same. I wonder why with all this catty behavior going on it is just so difficult for nursing to be seen as more professional. We always seem to demand this yet do not support eachother, so how are we ever going to get there?

Oh boy -- where to start?

Contrary to what seems to be your belief, most experienced nurses remember what it was like to be new nurses, new at a job, or a scared student. Believe me, I remember it vividly. Most new nurses and scared students, however, have no idea what it's like to try to mentor someone while taking care of a full assignment and trying to get the work done and keep the patients safe.

Getting exasperated with a new nurse or a student who repeatedly asks the same question or who just doesn't seem to "get it" despite multiple attempts to teach it isn't an example of "bullying" or being two faced and phoney. It's an example of being human. What's wrong with asking the same question three times is that it's evidence that you're not getting it. Accumulate enough evidence that you're not getting it and you may be subject to remediation, the discipline process or termination.

Believe me, experienced nurses do not feel their jobs being threatened every time a newbie is hired. Nor do we feel our "position at our job" is threatened. Frankly, the newbie isn't in any position to be a leader until they become competent -- at that takes about two years. Most of them won't stay that long.

If you're repeatedly running into situations where people are excluding you from conversations, picking apart you report or answering questions abruptly, chances are it's not them, it's you. Take a good, long and hard look at your own behavior. Are they excluding you from conversations because you're rude and attempt to derail or dominate conversations? Are they answering questions in an abrupt manner because you're asking the wrong questions or at the wrong time? Are they picking apart your report because you need to learn to give a decent report and they're hoping to give you cues as to what you need to learn?

Attacking your mentors, preceptors and all experienced nurses is not an example of supporting each other. Nor is implying that all women are catty.

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Specializes in Med-Surg, NICU.
I am sure I am about to get flamed for posting this, but I feel the need to anyways. I have been seeing these threads talking about bullying and teachers or preceptors hating the students, and new nurses or abusing them because of some perceived slight or injustice. Well guess what young un's? The world is a hard cold nasty place that does not need to be polite to you or worry whether your feelings got hurt and you feel offended. You need to grow up and realize that the abuse that you claim is rampant, or the bullying that you experience all the time is not their problem, but rather your problem.

I see so many things wrong with this post.

1. Blame the offender, not the victim. If someone is mistreating another human being, he or she should be held accountable, not the target. You wouldn't blame a rape victim for the sexual assault (I hope), so why would you blame the bullied for the bully's actions?

2. Yes, the world is a cold place, but that is because of cold people, and it does not excuse people for being mean to each other. On my death bed, I want to be able to look back on my life and think that I left this "nasty" place a little less nastier and a bit more pleasant....don't you?

I see so many posts about this and I wonder how some of these people have survived as long as they have. School is tough? Deal with it. You think that someone else is getting it easier? Well too bad, they may be but no one ever promised you everything would be fair. You have to learn that there is inequality in life. It's how you overcome that inequality that matters. It teaches perseverance.

I agree that life is not fair, yes...but...

Abusive teachers? Maybe they are trying to get the best in you to come out. What you think is abuse maybe is pushing you to your limits, to get you further along in your potential. So your feelings got hurt at school, grow up, feelings get hurt every day.

3. I have found that the "bad ass crusty old nurse" is not conducive to everyone's learning style. There is a fine line between being stern and firm and being down rude and nasty. Some preceptors/teachers forget that once upon a time ago they were nursing students and new grads green as summer grass. Do I agree that some new grads/students are too sensitive? Yes. But I also know that there are some preceptors/teachers out there who have no business precepting/teaching anyone.

Your preceptor is unorganized and does not like you and bad mouths you to your manager, and all your patients
love you but no one at the hospital sees how great you really are? Well your preceptor may actually have great time management skill, but when having to slow down and teach someone their job, things do tend to get disorganized. You may be part of the blame there. Did you ever stop to think that you are the proverbial monkey wrench in a well oiled machine? The need to teach you, and I realize you do need to learn, can be very time consuming. They may tell your manager that you need improving or that you are not advancing fast enough. They may be all smiles to you, because they want to support you and keep you positive, but they need to tell the manager how you really are.

4. Bad mouthing someone to management is a big no-no in my book unless it concerns patient safety. And in that case, a true professional wouldn't run their mouth off to the big suits but would pull that person aside and confront him/her FIRST.

5. Smiling to someone's face and telling lies and turning around to management is what I would call back-stabbing and being two-faced. I'm starting to wonder...did you start this thread because you have been accused of bullying and behaving like this? Part of a preceptor's job is to give constructive criticism. How is one going to improve if the preceptor isn't correcting him or her? I have a serious problem with this part of the post, and I hope you are not participating in that kind of behavior/precepting....it is not conductive to safe patient care.

Speaking of orientation, how often have I seen statements that say the other nurses are not supportive and will not answer
questions. Have you ever thought that maybe you are asking TOO MANY questions? After a bit it may seem that you are not retaining the info provided and everyone gets tired of answering the same questions over and over. Part of learning is knowing when to shut your mouth and just watch. It has been said by people wiser than me that the only question you should ask is the question that you already know the answer to. If that does not make sense to you, think about it for a while and you might just be surprised that a light comes on.

Asking too many questions? Only asking questions you know the answer to? I'm not going to even waste my time on how ridiculous this paragraph sounds.

So basically what i am saying is grow up and act like the adult that you are. Life is not fair, school is not fair,
work is not fair. You just have to learn to deal with it.

And in addition, how about we raise the standards of professionalism in nursing? Instead of acting like middle school children, how about behaving like the educated healthcare professionals? Support one another, provide constructive criticism for positive growth and learning instead of acting like mean-spirited schoolkids and expecting people to keep silent?

If people in the past had just "shut up" because "life wasn't fair" my ancestors would still be in chains and women would still be expected to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. Promoting change requires being vocal and a willingness to change. Just because the [nursing] world has been harsh now, it doesn't mean we have to let it continue to be this way for future generations.

Or maybe I'm a darn neo-hippie. Hey Jude!

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.

One of my 3 preceptors at my first job told me she doesn't like precepting. I think that's a problem. Sometimes preceptors are pushed into precepting, without proper training and without wanting to precept. In general, when someone likes what they do, you can tell. Same with preceptors. One of my 3 preceptors at said job had personal issues at home that she brought to work. One of her sons was "in trouble" and her teenage daughter got pregnant and her dad was sick. Yes she was human, but was that the right time to precept? Probably not. That's my introduction. Not all preceptors are fit to precept at all or at a particular time. Add a nervous new graduate nurse to the equation and there is potential for a bad situation.

[Note: the following paragraph is a generalization and does not apply to all individuals. But don't fall into the trap and say "this isn't me", if in fact you are as described.]

Needless to say, the current generation (which I am part of) is a generation of "me." The world is a scary place. From a young age they taught to look out for ourselves. Millennials are used to getting what they want. They are used to everything being fair. The value of hard work has been diminished in American culture. Millennials are used to everything coming to them without much effort on their part. This includes new nurses. Nursing is a huge culture shock to anyone, but especially to this group. All of a sudden you aren't the focus, it's the patient. All of a sudden people are telling you that you need improvement and in fact you have a long way to go..Why? For the patients...All of a sudden you have to put other people's needs before yours...I think some new nurses need to depersonalize criticism and remember that we are here to provide the best possible care to the patients. At the end of the day, the criticism is for you. If you aren't safe, you won't last long and patients will suffer.

On the other had, noone has the right to be mean to others. Yes, there are mean people and the only way to survive is to put up with it. But that gives NO RIGHT to anyone to be mean and unhelpful. If you think it's ok to be like that, you don't belong in nursing. Get a computer/desk/accounting job, where you can have minimial interactions with other humans who deserve your respect. Who are you to decide that other people are so undeserving of respect that you should be rude and treat them with disrespect. Even if you are getting divorced, just crashed your car, or are hormonal, you STILL shouldn't be treating people disrespectfully. And if you do..and you will because you're human, apologize.

Nursing is very very stressful. Imagine having an orientee to keep track of on top of all the usual stresses? As a preceptor, your orientee should not be made to feel that's she's interrupting you when she asks questions (This is how I felt with one of my preceptors). I am for questioning. However, the proper way to ask a question is to do some research beforehand, unless it's an emergency situation. This way, you show that you are interested, curious, and ready to learn. It is also less time consuming. I don't think that "tough love" preceptors love their job any less than "sweet" preceptors. However, tough love preceptors are not for everyone. A good preceptor and a good teacher will be able to adjust their teaching style to their student/orientee. Some orientees need a lot of encouragement/congratulations to feel confident, others will feel that a lot of encouragement feels fake and they want to be congratulated only when they successfully performed a challenging feat (I am #2).

At the end of the day, there is room for improvement on both sides. Many new nurses need to make a huge attitude adjustment, which involves hard work, learning to put their feelings aside, intellectual curiosity, and acceptance of constructive criticism. Some of their preceptors need to like what they do, be willing to teach and adjust their styles according to their students needs, and give criticism constructively.

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"The only question you should ask is the one you know the answer to."

I'm sorry but just had to comment that this is the stupidest thing I've read all week hahaha.

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I have to agree, at least with the nursing school part (I'm still in school, so I don't have experience as a nurse).

I just completed my first year of nursing school. The first semester I had a really tough instructor and I thought she didn't like me. Somehow I got her for most of my skills check-offs so I really dreaded those days. I became friends with a couple of other girls that also felt as though that instructor didn't like them, either. One of the girls blew up at the instructor and told her off. Then when I was in a different class I overheard some different classmates talking about the instructor. One girl said she was glad that it was hard to pass the class, that the instructor required everyone to be pretty much perfect. She said she wanted to be a really good nurse and she figured the teacher was helping her by expecting her to perform at the best of her abilities.

It's immature and unprofessional to swear and tell-off an instructor. I decided to take a different attitude. I want to be the best nurse I can be. If I fail a skill, it's not because the instructor was too hard- it's because I didn't practice enough. All the teachers at the school are older women who have years of experience, education, and teaching. They know their stuff forwards, backwards, and sideways. They want their students to pass and they want to send well-prepared graduates out to the workforce.

I think if you whine and complain about the workload then yes, the teachers probably aren't going to have much respect for that attitude. They also had to do that work! If you can't handle nursing school how are you going to handle working with patients and their families? They sure aren't going to hold back if you screw up.

I get tired of hearing the whining and complaining about the teachers at school. If you're not passing then you should go speak to the teacher or get help at school. There's a ton of resources out there. It's your education, you're paying for it so you need to be proactive about getting help if you need it. If the teacher is out of line-then report that person.

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