Stealing drugs!! what's your opinion?????

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Nov 27, 2003

Hi All

HHmmm I see a lot of rationalizing in here. I see a lot of pseudo understanding in here. I see a lot of symapthy in here. I even see some honesty in here.

Bottom line. Any Nurse who steals drugs or is an addict has violated there privilege to be a nurse and should be relegated to be kept away from all madication administration. If not removed from nursing completely.

Addicted, impaired, drug diverting nurses do nothing but adversly influence the publics views on our professionalism. And what it costs to so called maybe rehabilitate one nurse is money that can be used to train dozens of other nurses.

Big Bab's · Nov 27, 2003

Except that the "money spent to rehabilitate" that nurse is his or her OWN money!!....We are required to pay for all of it!!....from inpatient rehab to counseling, aftercare, monitoring programs, UA's, group meetings...etc and all that goes with it........Just an FYI for you.

Lemonhead · Nov 28, 2003

Money spent on rehab....hmmmm....do you think the Boards fork out that money---come on, get real.

We pay for everything...everything--even the caseworker that I had to see didn't have travel expenses for our monthly visits--I had to drive the 150 miles, to her hometown, (even though the Board office was 50 miles from my home) each way to see her.

Again, you can label all of the conversation as you wish, and you can "rationalize" that drug addicted nurses are forever a black eye on the profession---and again, I will say...."Never Say Never"....

I guess I'm a little confused on what you find "pseudo" in these conversations..we are telling an honest story and we are citing documented laws and actions.

If you choose to see it as something less, then you will remain ignorant and the day you're faced with a dilemna, you'll be in the dark. That's certainly your choice, but it doesn't speak for the hundreds of nurses that want to hear these stories, want to understand them and want to educate themselves. It's as simple as having an open mind and understanding that you are NOT

immune from mistakes...

We aren't here for sympathy--we are here with a message and education--

skybirdrising · Nov 28, 2003

I am amazed by the level of support for such unbecoming behavior. Stealing is a crime. Taking drugs illegally is a crime. We are in a noble profession. Let us not compromise into a gray area. This is a black and white issue and stealing merits prosecution to the fullest extent. I cannot believe the previous post that give sympathy to those who steal for whatever reason. Unfortunate that the medical profession has to deal with this type of behavior. No excuses!

skybirdrising · Nov 28, 2003

Originally posted by teeituptom
Hi All

HHmmm I see a lot of rationalizing in here. I see a lot of pseudo understanding in here. I see a lot of symapthy in here. I even see some honesty in here.
Bottom line. Any Nurse who steals drugs or is an addict has violated there privilege to be a nurse and should be relegated to be kept away from all madication administration. If not removed from nursing completely.
Addicted, impaired, drug diverting nurses do nothing but adversly influence the publics views on our professionalism. And what it costs to so called maybe rehabilitate one nurse is money that can be used to train dozens of other nurses.

100% correct. Too bad some don't get it yet!

Big Bab's · Nov 28, 2003

Well, then I have a question Skybird.....Where would you put me in this???.....I am a recovered addict...still working as an RN, while in a 5 year monitoring program (which I pay for)....but, I NEVER stole anything, NEVER wrote my own RX's or called them in, NEVER took so called "street drugs", NEVER used while on duty.....so where does that put me, in your opinion??......This issue is SOOO far from "black and white"......and until you've been thru it, its very difficult do see all the exceptions and differences in each persons situation.......it can be all sorts of shades of gray, which is why this is a very difficult issue to deal with and agree on.....If it truly were as black and white as you believe then we wouldn't even be here discussing it.......I really don't think you will change your opinion here, but thought I'd put a different perspective on it for you to think about, imagine you are in my shoes......what would that feel like for you and how would you want to be treated??.....would you want to be cast aside and thought of as a "lost cause"??.....or would you want the chance to redeem yourself and become the person and nurse that you know you can be??.....some people ARE beyond help, I will give you that, but the majority just want a chance to prove themselves and have chance at a good life...Think about it!

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 28, 2003

Originally posted by skybirdrising
I am amazed by the level of support for such unbecoming behavior. Stealing is a crime. Taking drugs illegally is a crime. We are in a noble profession. Let us not compromise into a gray area. This is a black and white issue and stealing merits prosecution to the fullest extent. I cannot believe the previous post that give sympathy to those who steal for whatever reason. Unfortunate that the medical profession has to deal with this type of behavior. No excuses!

Let me try to explain how I feel about it. I don't condone stealing. I feel an impaired nurse is dangerous and their license should be revoked for obvious reasons.

The support I give and the compassion I have is for the addict's addiction, not the crime. Does that make sense. There is tremendous suffering and a human being there. That human being can perhaps return to being a productive member of the nursing profession with guidance and with supervision.

I've already stated, in another thread how I feel about addiction. That it is a physiological process that doesn't really have anything to do with the morality of the person. Why someone who takes a prescribed percocet does fine, while another becomes an addict is a physical process. It's complicated I know.

But to dispose of good nurses is not making our profession any better in the eyes of the public.

So I'm going to humbly agree to disagree with you here. :)

SmilingBluEyes · Nov 28, 2003

THANK YOU Tweety!!!!! you said it so well.

geez nursing is supposed to be a compassionate profession. Where is it here folks? How mean can we get? YES stealing is "unbecoming" but then so is addiction......to the sufferer and those around him/her. I support these people here CAUSE THEY ARE ACTIVELY RECOVERING AND DESERVE THE SUPPORT........."there but for the Grace of God go I...."those of you who find this unforgiveable or "unbecoming"...say that to yourselves once or twice. Or something like that....and another thing:

I don't see myself as NOBLE--that turns my stomach...I am human trying to do "good".....nobility is not for me. I on NO pedestal here. If I were, I am sure SOMEONE or SOMETHING would surely knock me off. It usually does...it did these folks.....

Nursing noble? Ok maybe but where is its HEART????

I join Tweety in disagreement with the hard-nosed opinions held here.

LilgirlRN, ADN, RN · Nov 28, 2003

I'll say it again, I try to treat my patient's as if they were family members, give them the same level of respect etc. People with addictions deserve the same level of care and respect. I believe in second chances. I don't believe in throwing away a seasoned nurse when they can be rehabilitated. Let's just say that for some strange reason one of the judgemental condescending nurses here was injured and had to be on pain medication for an extended period of time and then couldn't stop taking it but their doc cut them off. You have pain either real or psychogenic and your brain is demanding you get rid of it, You're at work, it's busy and no one will notice that you took the demerol that was meant to be wasted but was left of top of the pyxis instead. You take it and immediately your pain is gone. because your tolerance is high from taking narcotics already the demeol works for your pain but doesn't knock you out. You rationalize this by saying that you can do your job better when you aren't in pain. You may actually even get some sort of commendation while you are diverting at work. You start taking more and more cause your tolerance is so high now, someone notices that demerol is missing. Everyone gets a UDS and yours comes up positive. You've been a nurse for 10 years. Your colleagues regard you as a very important member of the team and depend on your knowledge base. You do the orientation of new employees on your unit because you are so good at your job. No one wants to believe you are a drug addict, but suddenly you find yourself in the HR office with the EAP staff member there asking you if you have a problem. Now, what do you think? Do you think YOU deserve another chance? If it were your son or daughter or your mom, would they deserve another chance? No one wants to be a drug addict, even the ones that come to see me in the ER every other day don't want to be addicts but they are caught in the loop and don't know how to get out. I say to those who stand in judgement of our fellow nurses who have so much to offer but are sick, shame on you!

speedbunny · Nov 28, 2003

Had a very bad experience with this last week unfortunately,

first night of a new RN traveler, anyway this guy worked 4 hours on my floor then floated to CCU. About 4am he comes up misssing, the search is on, police are called and they find him in his car with MS injectables, Valium and Vicodin. Needless to say he was arrested and fired and is now out on bail, he had also stolen some hosp property. Hospital fired him immediatly and im sure he will lose his license , since not only did he steal drugs and property but abandoned his patients (2) in CCU. What a morning that was, police were on our floor to checking all our counts and no one could leave since he had also worked 4 hours on our floor prior to floating off. Cant say I have alot of sympathy for him for the fact more then anything he abandoned his patients

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 28, 2003

Originally posted by speedbunny
Had a very bad experience with this last week unfortunately,
first night of a new RN traveler, anyway this guy worked 4 hours on my floor then floated to CCU. About 4am he comes up misssing, the search is on, police are called and they find him in his car with MS injectables, Valium and Vicodin. Needless to say he was arrested and fired and is now out on bail, he had also stolen some hosp property. Hospital fired him immediatly and im sure he will lose his license , since not only did he steal drugs and property but abandoned his patients (2) in CCU. What a morning that was, police were on our floor to checking all our counts and no one could leave since he had also worked 4 hours on our floor prior to floating off. Cant say I have alot of sympathy for him for the fact more then anything he abandoned his patients

Of course this person needs to be dealt with. He needs to be removed from the nursing profession as he is a danger to society. That I agree with. The stories of theft and danger are scarey.

What happens now? We just dispose of him and throw him in jail? Suppose this is his bottom. He pays for his own rehab. Five years from now he's been clean and sober the entire time, he's an excellent and compassionate nurse when not on drugs. Do we allow him to re-enter the profession under strict supervision?

I have no sympathy for his acts. But again, there's probably a human being underneath all of that who is suffering. That's whom we need to reach, whom we need to bring back to the land of the living.

Big Bab's · Nov 28, 2003

Lilgirl, you really have a complete grasp on what "our" message about nurses and addiction is, and I wish you could teach it to others in the profession!!......and like I said before, every "addicts" situation is unique and SHOULD be uniquely treated, but they're not!!....we are all lumped into the same programs, requirements, and "treatments", no matter what our situations are.....How many other "diseases" do you know of that have "only one treatment option"???.....I can't think of any!!...there should always be options!!.....example, the travel nurse in the previous post.....this guy is obviously alot further down the road of addiction and desperation than I was,(he's NOT better or worse than me!!...JUST a different "level")....Obviously, it was appropriate to arrest him and let the judge handle it from there.....but keep in mind that there are nurses and BON's that would condone arresting ALL of us!!....and even some that fabricate evidence so that they can!!! (and if ya think I'm exagerating here, do some research, it happens ALL THE TIME!) .....Now how is that fair or even the least bit productive in any way??........I know that, I personally, am a better nurse for having been thru what I have....I have much more insite and compassion for my patients AND MY CO-WORKERS.....I no longer expect them to be "super-human", we've really got to learn to take that kind of pressure off of nurses, it creates more problems than most will ever understand.