Stealing drugs!! what's your opinion?????

LilgirlRN, ADN, RN · Nov 22, 2003

Thank you for being so honest Lemonhead. They say that 10% of the population of the US has addiction problems, I would think that nurses would have an even higher incidence as much as we like to "doctor" our ailments. I am not saying that 10% of nurses divert (I prefer to call it stealing, cause that's what it is), I am saying that many of us have some sort of an addiction issue. I seem to remember from psych that there are something like 160 addictions. The most easily accesible drug is alcohol, if the FDA were to classify alcohol it would be a classII narcotic and it's LEGAL!! I am in agreement with Tweetie, I think SOME nurses can come back after getting help. Everyone deserves a second chance. I worked with a girl who diverted so much demerol that they actually coded her at her last job and she has done fine abd has been clean for about 3 years. I think it all depends on the person and what they really want. I've been watching National Geographic today and they had a thing about addiction on there. They've found that it's not just the high that keeps and addict an addict. There are chemicals that attack the amygdala that make the addict so incredibly anxious that they use again. I am sure that any addict coulda told us that, but they are working on drugs to block that chemical formation. Wouldn't that be wonderful? To have the people that we love back? Most families have at least one member that they just don't know what to do with, they've tried everything in the world to help them and nothing seems to help. I have a cousin that's like that, so sweet as a child and now he's dying from alcoholism.

Big Bab's · Nov 23, 2003

Hello.....I know the main topic is nurses who are or have "diverted" meds.....and although I never did that or was never accused of it, I am treated exactly the same because I am or was an addict......My story is different from Lemonhead's (not worse or better, just different) and maybe another insite into how easy it is to get caught up in the "high".......I graduated from nursing school in 1997.....and immediately went to work in a hospital....not yet having a drug problem, things went fine......until hospital politics and a total ***** DON made me realize all the crap wasn't worth it, so I quit and went into home health nursing, which was OK until the franchise owner was audited by the state and as a result of her bad "paperwork" practices lost her franchise agreement......so, I then went to an office setting, which I would later see probably saved my life in the end!!......So, with all that said, here's how the meds came into play and devastated my life and my families........The story REALLY begins when I started my first year in college (I had never been sick, other than the occasional cold until this), I began having HORRIBLY painful boughts of abd pain, bad enough that I ended up in the ER many times, after the first two visits "they" said it was my appendix and removed it.....four visits after that, it was my gallbladder, it was removed....then after another year of it, I was sent to a gastroenterologist who thought it was Crohn's disease, and when it did not respond to treatment, he did a colonoscopy and biopys decided it was "Irritable Bowel Syndrome" and tried at least 9 meds over the next 3 years that NEVER worked, at the end of all that all I had was bunchs of meds that did nothing and HUGE medical bills I would never be able to pay......and ER Dr's who thought I was a "head case"....basically what I learned during this period was that I should learn to live with this pain and accept the fact that NO ONE believed me so I would NEVER be treated appropriately for my pain.......Now, for course this would create, in any person (I believe), a HUGE amount of stress and anxiety about the shear ANTICIPATION of having "an attack" (for lack of better term).....when I would feel one coming on, it immediatley scared me to death, pain is very scarey especially when you know that no one will believe that you have any pain....and to think that I was going to have to indure hours if not days of it until it stopped on its own was more awful than I can possibly explain, it literally brought on an "cocommittent anxiety disorder" that I would later have to deal with after one episode literally drove me to attempt suicide..........soooo, while working in the hospital setting, in a different town than the one this all started in, I was in the ER one night for an attack, (usually they would give me an injection of demerol or stadol and phenergan..after much begging from me), the doc this night says to me "You know, Stadol comes in a nasal spray, maybe we should just give you an rx for that, it would save you alot of hassel and money on ER visits.", well NO SHIT SHERLOCK!!......At the time it sounded like a totally appropriate thing and I was just stunned to have a Dr. that actually thought I really had something that ought to be treated!!....so of course, I accepted, and you can guess how things went from there, with a few differences......It didn't become a "addiction" truly until 3 years later.....by then I was working in an office setting, the same one I still work in (I had and still have VERY supportive co-workers and friends) who after my first year there began to notice and acceleration in the number of rx's I needed, and all the stress going on in my home life that really exaccerbated my IBS and anxiety.....I never stole meds, or used illegal drugs, or forged rx's, or "called-in" rx's for myself to px's.....but of course I didn't NEED too, I worked with 5 great Dr's who were more than willing to write legit rx's for me......the "straw that broke the camels back" came when the use was so frequent that it began to affect my work and attendence, I wasn't "myself" anymore.....an frankly any other employer would have just kicked me out the front door and not looked back...but they didn't, in fact they had a "conference" unbeknownst to me, and decided to "get me the help i needed".....they called the BON run program for addicted nurses who then sent a rep. to confront me and do an intervention.....well, it worked, for one thing, I knew that I was "wearing my welcome" as far as asking for rx's and it wouldn't have been real long, probably a matter of days, before I WOULD have been diverting from patients, I was already thinking about it!.....so, I went to inpatient rehab, then back to my same job...that was 2 years ago, I am in a 5 year "monitoring contract" which I can explain about later if you are interested......I've got 3 years left, and it hasn't been easy, I still have the "pain issue" but I also have Dr's that BELIEVE me and help me to treat it APPROPRIATELY and as much as possible, without narcs.....I've done well and been EXTREMELY lucky, most do not have the kind of support that I have, and as a result end up like Lemon, no longer nurses, and looked down upon by other nurses who truly have no idea what its like to walk in our shoes....most people are too quick to judge before they know "the whole story"....granted, I also believe that there are those out there that do not want to recover, and as such should not be nurses any longer, but we can't judge that without taking the time find out who those nurses are and aren't............anyway, sorry this is soooo lengthy.....I thought it might be good to have another example of how this happens.........Thanks for listening!!....It always helps me to see just how far I've come when I can tell this story to others.....it now seems soo long ago!!

Lemonhead · Nov 23, 2003

BigBabs and Cando---glad to see your stories--I was beginning to feel all alone--lol, seriously--there are so many of us out here, we really need to share this so other nurses can understand how easy it is to fall in to the nightmare...

Lilgirl--I really wanted to respond to your post regarding treatment, etc....there are thousands of studies, theory's and hypothesis for why we do what we do--however, our "treatment industry" is a far cry from treating according to individual--for instance, there are no "alternative" treatments in addiction/alcoholism fields and treatment centers are run completely differently than hospitals..it's very scary and being in this situation has opened my eyes bigtime.

Once labeled an addict, we are lumped in to one category.."addict"...every "addict" is told that we are all the same, we all do this for the same reasons, we are forever diseased and we can only survive this via a very few select treatment modes--can you imagine if we told a cancer patient this...in addition, those in charge of treatment, in my state, do not even have to have a college education..they are called "Certified Chemical Dependency Counselors"..they are certified by the state --this certification did not require a college education, nor mental health training--they were of the "been there, done that" and "on the job training"...the requirements: they had to be sober for 1 year and 2000 hours of observation. And they may very well have the care of an "addict" from start to finish. Just because a person goes in to treatment, does not mean they will EVER see a doctor--they may not see an internist, psychiatrist, psychologist or even college educated mental health therapist....

When you are labeled an "addict"...the label is extremely wide and vague--for instance, I used for 9 months--yet, I am labeled no differently than a serial rapist that has been an addict since he was 8 years old on heroine, crank and acid....and this is absolutely NOT an exagerration--in addition, if you dare to question this general classification, you will suffer ramifications..when I told a board caseworker that I couldn't "relate" to the man that had been an alcoholic since he was 12 as a result of childhood abuse and went on to horribly abuse his wife and kids, I was referred back to intensive inpatient treatment for being "in denial"....there is no separation, distinction or individualism....we are told to basically remove ourselves from family members, church members and friends if they are not in "recovery" themselves because they "can't possibly understand"....

I could go on and on with this topic, but my main point is--addiction/alcoholism and the crimes associated with it go on because people--nurses or not--are not getting individual and appropriate care specific to their history and their needs. If nurses were more exposed to this "treatment" environment, they would be horrified.

Perhaps your cousin is dying because he's never received the help HE needs to live again--through no fault of his own, but through the fault of a terribly flawed system. If it weren't for my family and my own gut instincts telling me that I could survive this despite the treatment community--I would have killed myself 6 months in...it's sad, but it's not being changed because our society sees addicts/alcoholics as hopeless throwaways and unfortunately, that myth is completely perpetuated by the treatment community---keeps their census up and the almighty dollar rolling in......

LilgirlRN, ADN, RN · Nov 23, 2003

Lemonhead, I wanted to send you a private message but there was no way to, here is what I wanted to send to you. One of my best friends is a social worker so I am very familiar with many of the frustrations that you are describing. Most addiction recovery establishments use the 12 step method, here is an alternative that works for some.

http://www.rational.org

mystc42 · Nov 24, 2003

Thank you so much for telling your stories. To give us all an insight to both sides. I still stand where i do as far as what i believe, I mean i feel sorry for someone that lets that addiction take control. But when it deprives the patient and causes them pain that is where my problem lies. As far as what should be done and where i stand with the boards and laws..... i honestly have not looked into it far enough to make a decision on it. But thank you for sharing once again.

__________________________________________________

Let us not pray for our mountains to be moved, but yet for the courage to climb them.

Lemonhead · Nov 25, 2003

LilgirlRN, thanks for posting the RR site--I have been there and that method of recovery has helped many nurses that I know--oddly enough, it's not widely accepted by the Boards, so all of the nurses that I know were still forced to 12 step programs, unfortunatly had to "play the game", but found true recovery and help via the alternative sites....it's ridiculous that the Boards don't see the goodness of some of these other methods , but they refuse to--they are as buffaloed at the general public that the 12 steps has a "proven" track record, which is not true at all. (lots of investigating and research to show.....) But, thanks for posting that--I'm hoping that others that come on to the message board will see it too.

Mystic--I understand what you mean--personally, I'm kind of torn on the issue--because only by the grace of God that I didn't harm anyone--I never tampered, but also don't know if I had gone on for another year if I wouldn't have gotten to that point. I guess what it boils down to, if we hurt another human being, there's consequences--it's a tough call for me being personally involved, but I can understand the other side of the fence too...and, it should be fair and consistent with all other professions as well--if nurses are prosecuted, so should the other professions--and that is NOT at all how it is right now. I just wish nurses were well educated on this nightmare BEFORE it ever happens, but there really is NO preventative education for us in this area--THAT is a tragedy and absolutely ridiculous---I had offered to go speak to a nursing school--but since part of my speech was going to involve discussing the state board and how the function (it was all truth, but raw truth) the director wouldn't go for it---conflict of interest--"we wouldn't want to say anything negative about the boards that credential us...." But, nurses need to understand this before they get to the point of using, tampering and injuring, because once it hits a certain point, it's a fast downward spiral....

Thanks again all for giving us an opportunity to share!!!

petunia · Nov 25, 2003

BigBabs, Cando and Lemonhead thank-you so very much for having the courage to share with us your stories. Stealing drugs is wrong and I think you all expressed this belief. What I gained from your experiences was some insight into just how easily it can happen. After all nurses are just people. We go through life with the same chances as everyone else to have a major life crises or just periods of bad judgment. We also have a very stressful occupation where much is expected of us, sometimes too much. The big difference is that drugs are readily available. I had read an article years ago (I can't even remember where at the moment) that discussed the drug addiction rate among medical professionals. Apparently there was a high incidence of this in both doctors and nurses. I think that we all need to be very vigilant for our own potential weaknesses and be a little less judgmental of those who have had to "walk in those shoes". I sincerely wish you all the best.

petunia · Nov 25, 2003

I work with some who think nothing of taking an ativan so they can sleep during the day when they work nights. Not a narcotic but but non the less taking drugs from work to alter their mood. Not a good idea I think.

Lemonhead · Nov 25, 2003

Thanks Petunia, I appreciate your understanding--like I've said, if we could only educate nurses as to how easy it is and how to prevent it since it's one of those "hush-hush" topics.

In the US, Ativan is a controlled substance--locked and counted, so "down here", ANYTHING that requires a doctor's prescription is can be a felony count--for instance, even the drugs that aren't locked up--Let me clarify that--that's Ohio law and I imagine law in most other states too. So, even taking a Theodur could bring on felony theft charges and charges of drug abuse...I remember nurses slipping a few Flexeril, Soma---hell, they'd load up on antibiotics for the kids--all from stock drugs--but they probably never imagined that they could be charged with felony counts...that's why I say--we have to educate each other because even someone that is NOT harming a patient and not under the impression that they are committing a pretty serious crime, can suffer some pretty shocking consequences....like a felony conviction for taking home some leftover Ampicillin?---(okay, we know it's stealing, we know it's a crime, but I can't say that I thought it was so bad before this happened to me.....) Thanks again to all of you and spread the word!!

BarbPick · Nov 25, 2003

people who divert drugs usually have a pattern they follow. I am surprised there were some missing as most get skilled at covering their tracks.

Here are some signs to look for. A heavy hand with pain medicine. A nurse who comes on duty, lets say 3-11. A patient on demerol is allowed to be medicated Q 3-4 hours. The first med given to this patient is at 3:15 pm, exactly 3 hours later the patient is medicated at 6:15, and of course they are in such agony they get medicated a 9:15. Same with the man down the hall on percocet, the notes say he was screaming in pain 10/10, every 3 hours on the dot.

If you read this nurses notes, they are usually all over the place, or not even done, and this nurse is known to stay after to try to cover the tracks she can actually remember.

Back in the days before unit dose, a bottle of antibiotics always had legs.

SmilingBluEyes · Nov 25, 2003

Originally posted by BarbPick
. A heavy hand with pain medicine. A nurse who comes on duty, lets say 3-11. A patient on demerol is allowed to be medicated Q 3-4 hours. The first med given to this patient is at 3:15 pm, exactly 3 hours later the patient is medicated at 6:15, and of course they are in such agony they get medicated a 9:15. Same with the man down the hall on percocet, the notes say he was screaming in pain 10/10, every 3 hours on the dot.

If you read this nurses notes, they are usually all over the place, or not even done, and this nurse is known to stay after to try to cover the tracks she can actually remember.

Back in the days before unit dose, a bottle of antibiotics always had legs.

and then the above could be signs of inadequate and/or inappropriate pain tx for the patient. maybe said patient needs DIFFERENT Meds or different doses.........what I learned is:

there is NO set rule when it comes to drug diverters and users. I learned a coworker was diverting and using whom I WOULD NEVER EVER SUSPECT...and NONE of her patients complained of being in pain. It was a total shock to us all. She always seemed on top of things...hands never shook and she never disappeared to bathrooms for extended times, either. Her notes were clear and concise, so it was with great amazement we learned she was doing this. My understanding is, she slipped majorly and was found out. I can't say enough how surprised we all were...and sorry.

To lemon: THANK YOU FOR YOUR BRUTALLY-HONEST Look into your life. It cannot be easy to share but I know it's part of the healing process. Taking responsiblity for what you have done, owning it and providing cautionary advice to others is indeed showing us you are trying. You have my deepest respect for this.

Lemonhead · Nov 25, 2003

I'm so glad we could post and bring this subject to light-and I appreciate the responses.

I was probably classed in the SHOCKEROO category--nobody knew--I worked nights, so being "sleepy" was not unusual..we all drank a lot of caffeine so frequent toilet breaks weren't out of the norm...and we had narcotics laying out all over the place--plus, with high census and constant patient turnover, few people really scanned the charts for patterns. (Labor and Delivery) I would have to say, my patterns were pulling meds the minute a patient walked in the door, offering to give others, visiting the unit on lunchbreak if I had been pulled, cleaning up after others---my bag was leftovers, so my patients were generally comfortable--But, I worked hard, kept up with the others and kept up with documentation--now, had it gone for a while, I'm sure that would have changed--I agree with the point that there isn't always an identifiable pattern--in fact, I would venture to say, that since, unlike other drug users that have a circle of friends that do the same, nurse using is so secretive, extremely shameful and I think a nurse would go to any length to not be noticed....not that it always works!

Thanks again, I would like to tell you guys how refreshing it has been to put this out in the open and have folks actually interested--most other sites have been much more judgemental and less willing to listen--we really just want nurses to understand how serious it is, how easy it is and how to protect themselves...thanks for giving us the opportunity!!!