I'm surprised there has been no mention of the Stanford rape trial and sentence on all nurses. I'm opening up the discussion as I feel it pertains to us in many ways. One as people who may have been victims or know others who have been victims of sexual violence and two as nurses that have taken care of others in this situation, whether directly in ER or a patient suffering from PTSD with other health problems as well.
I applaud the survivor's bravery and her impact statement that has gone public. I hope this will comfort other survivors, but even more I hope this will discourage rape in general. Campus rapes are common and rapes at frats are in the news frequently. Once again a college athlete got off with just a slap on the wrist, although I don't think he counted on all the negative publicity this case has garnered.
What disturbs me the most is the letters of the parents to the judge. The father's don't punish him for 20 minutes of action. Then the mother's letter, who by the way is a nurse for gynecological surgeries and in the past as a pediatric nurse, who had not one iota of empathy for the victim. Her letter simply astonished me. I can't believe as a woman, as a nurse, as a mother of a daughter she had no empathy for the victim! This troubles me the most! I imagine in her years as a nurse she must have taken care of a rape victim and her total lack of empathy for the victim disturbs me greatly!
It did bother me that the mother's letter to the judge was really an "all about me" narrative where she talks about how she can't even decorate her new home because of what happened. It was so self-centered, "why him; why me; why us????" I imagine the victim thinks that every, single day.
How is the son framing this incident? He has convinced his parents it was consensual? That both him and this girl were having consensual sex behind a dumpster??
No one would have consensual sex behind or around a dumpster! He treated her like she was garbage, raping her beside a dumpster! Thankfully two heroes appeared that put an end to the rape, stopped him from running away, and ensured she was given the medical care she needed.
That his parents would either buy his lies or simply not care about the victim to protect their son makes me ill! The father's letter screams whats the big deal, while the mom's letter is ridiculous like she was trying to have him canonized for sainthood! Then the woe is me and woe is my poor family, I can't even decorate my house I'm so upset! Really! Really!
I have a very different perspective- I am a gay man- there are many times when I was high or drunk, and was in a situation I would not otherwise be in... I never thought to call it rape, or a violation.
I put myself in the situation, to be with other impaired people, while impaired. I am not surprised that bad decisions were made.
I have a very different perspective- I am a gay man- there are many times when I was high or drunk, and was in a situation I would not otherwise be in... I never thought to call it rape, or a violation.
I put myself in the situation, to be with other impaired people, while impaired. I am not surprised that bad decisions were made.
I'm not sure that I understand the point you're making. I assume that you got drunk and high of your own free will? If that's the case then agreeing to have sex with someone you normally wouldn't have had sex with and perhaps (but not necessarily) having regrets the next day, isn't rape. However, if someone had sex with you that you didn't consent to or had sex with you when you were in a state when you couldn't consent (asleep, unconscious), then it most definitely is sexual assault or rape. It doesn't matter that you got yourself drunk or high, in order for the sex to be consensual and not a crime, you would actually have to consent. Rape isn't a bad decision. It's a crime.
@brandy1017, you'd be surprised by the weird places people have consensual sex.. But in this case, you're absolutely right. This wasn't consensual in any way, shape or form.
I have a very different perspective- I am a gay man- there are many times when I was high or drunk, and was in a situation I would not otherwise be in... I never thought to call it rape, or a violation.
I put myself in the situation, to be with other impaired people, while impaired. I am not surprised that bad decisions were made.
I've already linked to a very thorough analysis of some research on rape that shows that there are a lot of habitual predators who deliberately get a victim more intoxicated (or find one who already is) for the express purpose of taking advantage of someone who doesn't have the capacity to enforce a "no." They get away with it when they're around people who believe the claim that "bad decisions were made."
Like I said, I have a very different perspective...
It was a bad decision to put myself in that situation- I did get myself drunk/high of my own free will. The ability to give informed consent wasn't there.
I refuse to be forced into the victim box and be told it was rape.
I've already linked to a very thorough analysis of some research on rape that shows that there are a lot of habitual predators who deliberately get a victim more intoxicated (or find one who already is) for the express purpose of taking advantage of someone who doesn't have the capacity to enforce a "no." They get away with it when they're around people who believe the claim that "bad decisions were made."
I'm sure I know someone like this, and was woken up one night by him. I said stop and never got drunk with him again.
I'm sure I know someone like this, and was woken up one night by him. I said stop and never got drunk with him again.
So now he's moved on to the next guy and the next and the next. It's not any more excusable when it happens to men. A person who is unconscious cannot consent. Period. That's rape.
So now he's moved on to the next guy and the next and the next. It's not any more excusable when it happens to men. A person who is unconscious cannot consent. Period. That's rape.
I know OP asked other people how they feel, this is how I feel. This is something I would never share in public, as there is such a culture of empowerment through victimhood...
As a gay man I can only offer my personal experience with being in situations that I should not have been in... and because of the way I was socialized I don't see it as a huge violation. Now if a stranger attacked me and penetrated me, I would feel very violated and call that rape.
Like I said, I have a very different perspective...
It was a bad decision to put myself in that situation- I did get myself drunk/high of my own free will. The ability to give informed consent wasn't there.
I refuse to be forced into the victim box and be told it was rape.
You don't have to label yourself a victim if you don't want to, but rape is when someone has sex with you without your consent. If you were unable to give consent, well... call it what you want, but the dictionary says that's rape.
There is a very, very gray line here. This is why it is very important to not try to have sex with someone who is obviously high/intoxicated. Technically speaking, even if the person said "yes" at the time, rape allegations could still be brought later if the person claimed they were too impaired to legally consent.
For all we know, this girl could have said yes at first. Maybe she wandered off with this jerk of her own free will. Maybe she even came on to him initially. She doesn't remember - it could have happened. However, since she was too drunk to consent, it was still rape. It was just extra obvious that it was rape when she passed out in the middle of it and he kept going.
It always amazes me that people have sex with strangers at frat parties at all, where a good at least 75% of the people there are too drunk to say yes by the end of the night. Being labeled a sex offender is going to greatly limit your job prospects for the rest of your life, and in the case for this guy, get him kicked out of his college and never able to play his sport competitively again in this country.
Any rational person - even a serial rapist, I would think - should think twice about finding a victim in such a public place where there will be lots of witnesses that saw him leave the party with her. He's not just a rapist, he's an incredibly stupid rapist. He reminds me of those bank robbers that wrote, "Give me all your money!" on a piece of paper that had their home address on it, and the cops were waiting for them before they even got home.
Yes, the whole purity obsession centers largely on women, while men's lack of "purity" is largely ignored, excused as "natural," or even lauded. Rarely do you hear of a woman getting kudos for having numerous sexual partners. Can you imagine someone telling an attractive, muscular college man to wear more baggy clothes because, you know, "too provocative, so, you know, rape."
Yes - it's the whole madonna/whore dichotomy that's truly crazy-making. Purity/chastity/"good girl" on one side, pushed by organized religion and social conservatives. Hypersexual female imagery and the obsession with our looks on the other hand, pushed by advertising, the media and a whole slew of major industries. All of it pounded into our heads relentlessly from early childhood. All part of the conditioning.
I heard the dad was planning to appeal the verdict when it was clear his son lied about consensual sex!
I hope that they appeal the verdict and the sentencing. If they do, the appellate judges can give him a longer sentence if they feel the one already given is not sufficient.
You don't have to label yourself a victim if you don't want to, but rape is when someone has sex with you without your consent. If you were unable to give consent, well... call it what you want, but the dictionary says that's rape.
There is a very, very gray line here. This is why it is very important to not try to have sex with someone who is obviously high/intoxicated. Technically speaking, even if the person said "yes" at the time, rape allegations could still be brought later if the person claimed they were too impaired to legally consent.
For all we know, this girl could have said yes at first. Maybe she wandered off with this jerk of her own free will. Maybe she even came on to him initially. She doesn't remember - it could have happened. However, since she was too drunk to consent, it was still rape. It was just extra obvious that it was rape when she passed out in the middle of it and he kept going.
It always amazes me that people have sex with strangers at frat parties at all, where a good at least 75% of the people there are too drunk to say yes by the end of the night. Being labeled a sex offender is going to greatly limit your job prospects for the rest of your life, and in the case for this guy, get him kicked out of his college and never able to play his sport competitively again in this country.
Any rational person - even a serial rapist, I would think - should think twice about finding a victim in such a public place where there will be lots of witnesses that saw him leave the party with her. He's not just a rapist, he's an incredibly stupid rapist. He reminds me of those bank robbers that wrote, "Give me all your money!" on a piece of paper that had their home address on it, and the cops were waiting for them before they even got home.
Here is the Merriam Webster Definition: "unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against the will usually of a female or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent"
To me the whole "by force" is the big violation.... when its with another intoxicated person... grey area.... Too many possible paths to sex that started as consensual...
I don't understand how we hold one intoxicated person as not being of sound mind to consent, and yet the other intoxicated person we say is capable of knowingly committing a crime...
Both people in this situation were intoxicated- it seems like neither of them should have been.
It reminds me of an accepted double standard, two 15 year olds of opposite gender have sex, the boy is charged with rape of a minor. Victim culture.
brandy1017, ASN, RN
2,910 Posts
No one would have consensual sex behind or around a dumpster! He treated her like she was garbage, raping her beside a dumpster! Thankfully two heroes appeared that put an end to the rape, stopped him from running away, and ensured she was given the medical care she needed.
That his parents would either buy his lies or simply not care about the victim to protect their son makes me ill! The father's letter screams whats the big deal, while the mom's letter is ridiculous like she was trying to have him canonized for sainthood! Then the woe is me and woe is my poor family, I can't even decorate my house I'm so upset! Really! Really!