I'm surprised there has been no mention of the Stanford rape trial and sentence on all nurses. I'm opening up the discussion as I feel it pertains to us in many ways. One as people who may have been victims or know others who have been victims of sexual violence and two as nurses that have taken care of others in this situation, whether directly in ER or a patient suffering from PTSD with other health problems as well.
I applaud the survivor's bravery and her impact statement that has gone public. I hope this will comfort other survivors, but even more I hope this will discourage rape in general. Campus rapes are common and rapes at frats are in the news frequently. Once again a college athlete got off with just a slap on the wrist, although I don't think he counted on all the negative publicity this case has garnered.
What disturbs me the most is the letters of the parents to the judge. The father's don't punish him for 20 minutes of action. Then the mother's letter, who by the way is a nurse for gynecological surgeries and in the past as a pediatric nurse, who had not one iota of empathy for the victim. Her letter simply astonished me. I can't believe as a woman, as a nurse, as a mother of a daughter she had no empathy for the victim! This troubles me the most! I imagine in her years as a nurse she must have taken care of a rape victim and her total lack of empathy for the victim disturbs me greatly!
There is a sense of empowerment when you join others as a "victim" or a "survivor"... we change the language to empower. Cancer victim... cancer survivor... etc...
So using the car analogy-
-Would you say if I left my car running and the doors unlocked that I might not be surprised if someone "borrowed" it.
-What about a friend who had borrowed it before, and asked if they could borrow it. I was sleeping, so they took the car. I changed my mind and reported it stolen.
I am encouraged by my friend to report said car stolen... lots of terrible things always seem to happen to said friend. He tells me I am a victim and he will help me to never be taken advantage of again...
There are lots of ways to look at crime- seldom is it as black and white as people would like. This is why we have a criminal system with disparities beyond all other nations on the planet...
Now back to my comment about victim culture, I do not see how one can simultaneously claim that there is a rape culture that coexists with a misogynist culture... and not admit that there is some sort of counter-punch within the culture to combat the rape and misogyny....
Well. I knew this discussion had been entirely too reasonable for entirely too long.
You go to an appointment to have your wisdom teeth surgically removed, and while you are already under sedation, the surgeon claims you consented to have all your teeth pulled except one. You wake up nearly toothless with no memory of the events. Is it your fault for allowing yourself to be in a vulnerable position? I mean, you chose to walk into the room with that surgeon. You chose to use mind-altering substances. You'd agreed to have one procedure done, so clearly you were game for procedures. Is that grey?
Yikes. I see the point you're trying to make, I just don't think I could possibly disagree more.
Being unconscious doesn't make you less of a victim - not remembering doesn't lessen what's happened to you. As someone who has been raped, her assault takes nothing from mine. It's her story and her experience and she's allowed to process/frame/feel whatever way she needs to.
I would hate to wake up and not know who did what to me. The thought is repulsive. Personally, I'd rather know my attacker than have it be some nameless, faceless entity. I don't think I'd be able to sleep, either.
She seemed to be doing ok until she read about the account in the paper.... I didn't say being unconscious makes on less of a victim... there are just circumstances that put this (these things)in a grey area.
Now with the power of the internet we are able to shun this person, seriously every other story in my Facebook feed was outrage.... this takes it to a whole other level, and we should be sure that we want witch hunts and scarlet letters to be the norm.
She seemed to be doing ok until she read about the account in the paper.... I didn't say being unconscious makes on less of a victim... there are just circumstances that put this (these things)in a grey area.
Now with the power of the internet we are able to shun this person, seriously every other story in my Facebook feed was outrage.... this takes it to a whole other level, and we should be sure that we want witch hunts and scarlet letters to be the norm.
Speculating that she was doing okay makes me really uncomfortable.
I'm not a fan of witch hunting necessarily, but I am a fan of the total outrage. Rape should be shocking and outrageous and we should feel furious every single time it happens and that people like the attacker and his parents and the judge are so ignorant about consent and what it means.
Well. I knew this discussion had been entirely too reasonable for entirely too long.
You go to an appointment to have your wisdom teeth surgically removed, and while you are already under sedation, the surgeon claims you consented to have all your teeth pulled except one. You wake up nearly toothless with no memory of the events. Is it your fault for allowing yourself to be in a vulnerable position? I mean, you chose to walk into the room with that surgeon. You chose to use mind-altering substances. You'd agreed to have one procedure done, so clearly you were game for procedures. Is that grey?
The conversation had been a reinforcement of one narrative. I know what I am saying is a foreign concept, but it is my truth, and the truth of other people who are afraid to voice their opinion.
Why do you keep using unreasonable analogies? When I go to the surgeons office I sign a consent for my wisdom teeth to be removed.
-If I am using substances, then there is a social contract to watch out for my wellbeing.
-If we are both using substances, its hard to say the outcome
-If only you are using substances, then you come upon me and harm me, it is your fault for choosing to take said substance.
If the surgeon and I were both using versed or valium while going over the consent.... I might not be surprised if she was not capable of performing the extraction, or accidentally did the wrong thing. That is the grey area.
The conversation had been a reinforcement of one narrative. I know what I am saying is a foreign concept, but it is my truth, and the truth of other people who are afraid to voice their opinion.
Why do you keep using unreasonable analogies? When I go to the surgeons office I sign a consent for my wisdom teeth to be removed.
-If I am using substances, then there is a social contract to watch out for my wellbeing.
-If we are both using substances, its hard to say the outcome
-If only you are using substances, then you come upon me and harm me, it is your fault for choosing to take said substance.
If the surgeon and I were both using versed or valium while going over the consent.... I might not be surprised if she was not capable of performing the extraction, or accidentally did the wrong thing. That is the grey area.
Do you see drunk drivers that kill people as grey area's?
Speculating that she was doing okay makes me really uncomfortable.
I'm not a fan of witch hunting necessarily, but I am a fan of the total outrage. Rape should be shocking and outrageous and we should feel furious every single time it happens and that people like the attacker and his parents and the judge are so ignorant about consent and what it means.
A fan of the outrage is absolutely contributing to victim/survivor culture. Edit- I am not even saying this is a bad thing, it is a phenomenon that is happening that has real power. We should be aware of that power.
The survivor in this case says that she found out at work while looking at the news on her smartphone... She said it in such a nonchalant way that I did speculate that she was able to function okay... Its quite the contrast to how she describes her abilities now.
A fan of the outrage is absolutely contributing to victim/survivor culture. Edit- I am not even saying this is a bad thing, it is a phenomenon that is happening that has real power. We should be aware of that power.
The survivor in this case says that she found out at work while looking at the news on her smartphone... She said it in such a nonchalant way that I did speculate that she was able to function okay... Its quite the contrast to how she describes her abilities now.
Speculating that she was doing okay makes me really uncomfortable.
I'm not a fan of witch hunting necessarily, but I am a fan of the total outrage. Rape should be shocking and outrageous and we should feel furious every single time it happens and that people like the attacker and his parents and the judge are so ignorant about consent and what it means.
It would be a pretty bizarre situation if she DIDN'T find it traumatizing that the general public was learning details of her assault that she herself didn't know.
I believe that there could theoretically be grey situations, but this sure wasn't one of them. She was intoxicated to the point of incoherent speech before the assault, and was completely unresponsive when her attacker fled after being discovered while the assault was in progress.
And if the person who got killed was drunk as well? Perhaps walking down the street.
This has happened- someone who had been drinking, but not legally over the limit. The drunk person (well over the legal limit) stumbled off the sidewalk at midnight right in front of the car. Driver stopped, was cooperative, but because they had been drinking and admitted to it they were arrested for DUI and manslaughter....
She was a single mother, she is in jail... that to me was an egregious punishment. Now if she had been over the legal limit.... different story.
I think its a super grey area, none of us were there, we don't know what led up to the rape, we just know what happened afterward. Its all subjective, and sounds terrible...
There are some other subjective things that mitigate the terribleness....
All I know is that around the world this guy has been tried in the public court of opinion, and we don't actually know what happened.
I used my personal experience with non-consensual sex, and drinking, to illustrate the reason why someone else might have a different opinion on the seriousness, obviously the survivors want any hint of a no (See the Tea video) to be the accepted no... and I won't argue that you can change the culture.
NotAllWhoWandeRN, ASN, RN
791 Posts
Well. I knew this discussion had been entirely too reasonable for entirely too long.
You go to an appointment to have your wisdom teeth surgically removed, and while you are already under sedation, the surgeon claims you consented to have all your teeth pulled except one. You wake up nearly toothless with no memory of the events. Is it your fault for allowing yourself to be in a vulnerable position? I mean, you chose to walk into the room with that surgeon. You chose to use mind-altering substances. You'd agreed to have one procedure done, so clearly you were game for procedures. Is that grey?