I am a Male RN with about 8 years of work experience in the ER, Prison, Acute PTSD/TBI @ the VA. I came from another Industry (Aviation/Airline), after 9/11 retrained into Nursing with the thought of doing something that "Matters" instead of making a corporation another pile of $$$$. After 8 years this has been my Observation of the current state of affairs within Nursing.
1) I have never been so poorly treated within a professional career as I have been with nursing, Managers MD's and Patients all use you as a human punching bag (I can tolerate some of this from a sick PT but not my peers and above). Unprofessionalism often rules and vengeful remarks and treatment are the norms..ie... I have heard the following from RN's,MD,managers..."shes a stupid ***** (MD), you need to find another line of work (MBA manager to new grad), "you need to pass those meds faster , whats wrong with you, cant hack it" (Charge RN).
2) Call offs and low pay...Name any other profession where you have to take hard earned leave or rotate to a totally different unit and are expected to perform (Board of nursing should demand changes to this its unsafe). BSN starting at 17 to 19 a hr nationwide avg...really...MSN with 5 years unless specially trained 60K...for real...(Bank of America pays a avg of 70 k to 100k for mid level MBA's)
I retired from USAirways in 2003, there were troubles galore with the company..but I was paid well, had exc healthcare...WAS TREATED AS A PROFESSIONAL...WHICH I WAS AND STILL AM.
Nursing as a profession.......only if you join the service as my wife did (CDR USN ret) ....to a hospital your a expenditure that they work like a dog, then throw away.
Its a sad state only getting worse as the economy is slow and Obama care will reshape the industry in pay and quality of care.
Good By Nursing.....it was a experience of a life ...time to do other things.
Grn Tea tells it like it is. You either sit around complaining, or you change it. It really is that simple.
GrnTea and I are "movers and shakers." Speaking only for myself (although I think I am inferring from her post above that GrnTea feels the same way, but I won't speak for her), this is not because I am a special snowflake. It isn't because I am smarter or better looking (though I may be, see my avatar). It is because I am simply unwilling to work in unpleasant environs, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to work on terms that are unacceptable to me, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to work without parity among my colleagues, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to accept mediocrity for myself or of myself. I have gone the extra mile at everything I have ever done, the classic overachiever. I'm the best employee & colleague you could hope to have. I will give 125% and am expert at my job. I won't be manipulated or taken advantage of, but I will be reliable, and my word is gold. For that reason, no one has ever wanted me to walk away, they have fought to keep me, to work with me instead of against me. I have been willing to work hard, take risks and make sacrifices to ardently avoid those issues. I have tried to affect change when I was dissatisfied, and when that didn't work, I changed situations, I moved on. I never, ever, stayed in any situation that I did not fully appreciate and support and complain that it sucked.
You change it or you leave it. That's it. "I can't leave because..." is a cop out. That's just fear talking. You can't be afraid and be successful and happy. No one ever achieved anything great without taking a risk.
When I read GrnTeas comment, I took it to mean that if one wont step up and affect positive change, then the ought put their head down and keep quiet. Complaining because one is unwilling to do what is necessary is unbecoming, at best.
Grn Tea tells it like it is. You either sit around complaining, or you change it. It really is that simple.
GrnTea and I are "movers and shakers." Speaking only for myself (although I think I am inferring from her post above that GrnTea feels the same way, but I won't speak for her), this is not because I am a special snowflake. It isn't because I am smarter or better looking (though I may be, see my avatar). It is because I am simply unwilling to work in unpleasant environs, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to work on terms that are unacceptable to me, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to work without parity among my colleagues, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to accept mediocrity for myself or of myself. I have gone the extra mile at everything I have ever done, the classic overachiever. I'm the best employee & colleague you could hope to have. I will give 125% and am expert at my job. I won't be manipulated or taken advantage of, but I will be reliable, and my word is gold. For that reason, no one has ever wanted me to walk away, they have fought to keep me, to work with me instead of against me. I have been willing to work hard, take risks and make sacrifices to ardently avoid those issues. I have tried to affect change when I was dissatisfied, and when that didn't work, I changed situations, I moved on. I never, ever, stayed in any situation that I did not fully appreciate and support and complain that it sucked.
You change it or you leave it. That's it. "I can't leave because..." is a cop out. That's just fear talking. You can't be afraid and be successful and happy. No one ever achieved anything great without taking a risk.
When I read GrnTeas comment, I took it to mean that if one wont step up and affect positive change, then the ought put their head down and keep quiet. Complaining because one is unwilling to do what is necessary is unbecoming, at best.
I don't like to complain...mostly because it puts me in a bad mood. "Venting" doesn't usually make me feel better, it keeps me mad longer. So, in my life, I either try to fix an issue, or I try to get over it.
But...as far as nursing goes...I'm a new grad. Even though I love most parts of my job, I have a serious issue with staffing, and how they will call people off. I might only have five patients at first, but then I'm left with all these empty rooms and...I'm sure you get the picture.
Anyway, y'all are talking about taking a stand, solving problems and all that, but I really don't know how to do that in a way that could make a difference.
Maybe it's just because I'm a new grad and I'm slow, but I feel like having seven patients on a critical care floor with multiple patients admitted for chest pain, acute renal failure, acute respiratory failure, ketoacidosis, AND having long term vented patients who need constant monitoring and suctioning should NEVER happen, not even once.
I guess my question is, are y'all saying that the only real solution is for me to quit my job and find another one? Because that's not really solving a problem...are there any ways for me to keep my job (since I really do like it, other than their tendency to call nurses off), and raise these standards at the same time?
Or should I just keep my mouth shut and wait until I have a little more credibility?
I find the OPs observations on nursing a generalization of his own experiences. I have experienced none of the degrading treatment that he complains of.My coworkers and superiors treat each other just fine.MDs are usually pleasant to deal with, civil if not down right friendly.I don't feel disrespected as a nurse.Abuse from AXO patients is very minimal and certainly not treated as the norm.I didn't recognize his description of nursing at all.
I wish you could list your place of employment so that others could have a chance of happiness in nursing
Specializes in 7 Years ED, 6 Years TBI/PTSD unit VA.
subsippi....heres my insight.....Call offs are the norm UNLESS you work for a Federal/State job here in NC. My observation of the sorry state of nursing was gleaned from my personal experiences over 8 years in ED, Medical Officer for DOC/SC, VA, and Military
in NC/SC area. There are a ton of things a new grad has to pick quickly the first year or two...you will get the hang of it.. apprehension about your skills is a common feeling as you start your shift. Get a few years of experience and market yourself outside the hospital environment...it is going to get much worse as new health care regs kick in.
As I have posted above...I know many "Old time Nurses" who had millions worth of bill out to their credit and were given a $hit lunch for, in one case 32 years, the other 20 years of quality service with NOT ONE CENT RETIREMENT. Please... Yes you have to manage your retirement...but you can only do that with good pay and benefits...which is lacking at every hospital ive ever encountered except the Federal system. Good luck...and dont allow yourself to be the next punching bag....your a Professional and should /will be treated as one.
PS :Airlines, car manufactures, GE, Computer companies all have retirement plans, most have exc pay ( so you can do a 5% match=10%..a good deal), most have exc medical and insurance...way too many RN's getting to the GOLDEN YEARS without 2 cents in retirement...think about it
subsippi....heres my insight.....Call offs are the norm UNLESS you work for a Federal/State job here in NC. My observation of the sorry state of nursing was gleaned from my personal experiences over 8 years in ED, Medical Officer for DOC/SC, VA, and Military
in NC/SC area. There are a ton of things a new grad has to pick quickly the first year or two...you will get the hang of it.. apprehension about your skills is a common feeling as you start your shift. Get a few years of experience and market yourself outside the hospital environment...it is going to get much worse as new health care regs kick in.
As I have posted above...I know many "Old time Nurses" who had millions worth of bill out to their credit and were given a $hit lunch for, in one case 32 years, the other 20 years of quality service with NOT ONE CENT RETIREMENT. Please... Yes you have to manage your retirement...but you can only do that with good pay and benefits...which is lacking at every hospital ive ever encountered except the Federal system. Good luck...and dont allow yourself to be the next punching bag....your a Professional and should /will be treated as one.
PS :Airlines, car manufactures, GE, Computer companies all have retirement plans, most have exc pay ( so you can do a 5% match=10%..a good deal), most have exc medical and insurance...way too many RN's getting to the GOLDEN YEARS without 2 cents in retirement...think about it
I've spent most of my career practicing in NC. I've never worked for any hospital or other healthcare employer, in NC or any of the other states in which I've practiced, that didn't offer at least decent health insurance and comprehensive benefit packages, and didn't offer an at-least-decent retirement program (granted, defined contribution program, not defined benefit), usually (but not always) with a 5% match. I've been saving for retirement since v. early in my career. Lots of nurses end up without retirement savings, as you note -- but, in my experience, those have been people who chose not to prioritize saving for retirement.
I understand there are plenty of hospitals and other healthcare employers out there that treat their nursing staff and other employees poorly, offer low pay and benefits, etc. However, as long as people are willing to work for those employers, they have no reason or need to change. If those employers couldn't get enough nurses to work for them to be able to staff their facilities, they'd have to make changes. One of the main reason nurses get abused, IMO, is that so many nurses are willing to be abused. One thing I've observed repeatedly over the time I've been in nursing is that we are (collectively) our own worst enemies.
Again, I'm in Elkpark's club. I work in a very rural area. Our very small hospital does offer decent medical bene's and a 401K retirement plan where they match 10%.
We've just had some financial counseling to help us make some decisions about retirement and there are many ways to save money without having your employer set up a 401K or other plan. You can actually do it yourself.
I too believe that one of the reasons some facilities treat their employees without much respect is because the employees allow it. No one can make you stay at a place like that. You do it to yourselves.
Seems like folks are waiting for Superman to swoop in and save them . . . well, guess what? Superman is a cartoon character.
I read threads like this, and I have to admit, it makes me a little nervous. I am a pre-nursing student now, and will be a 2nd career RN. I sometimes wonder what I am getting myself into. But then I think of where I have been. I have dealt with crap like this, some worse, and survived. I have been yelled at, called names, put down, threatened, backstabbed, and even had things thrown at me by a boss. And some of it happened at crap jobs that I hated. All these places I got paid little more than minimum wage (yes, with a degree, not slinging burgers at McD's). So if I can put up with that, I can certainly do it at a job where I have more respect, more autonomy, and 3 times the pay. Some might say they don't get the pay and respect they deserve, and that might be true. But it is still more than I am used to.
That being said, I do appreciate people telling the good and the bad working as nurses. I don't want to go in naïve. I know no job is perfect, every career has issues. It is up to the individual to decide if they can handle the particular stresses of nursing over a different career path, with different issues.
I wish you could list your place of employment so that others could have a chance of happiness in nursing
It's Canada y'all! I agree with everything loriangel said. If you are A&O and acting like a horse's rear you are going to get tuned in real quick, because we have patients, not customers.
I also have not experienced abuse from other disciplines, it's not ok, and not tolerated in the culture if my workplace.
And for the people talking about doing more than complaining, standing up for themselves and demanding change - I do agree with you. But it isn't always as simple as that. You have to take account of many factors before putting yourself in that situation. A new grad, for example, doesn't have the years of experience backing them up to be taken as seriously. And if they just quit their job over every problem, they might find it difficult to get hired on elsewhere. No matter what the reasons, employers want stable employees. And you will look anything but.
It also isn't easy for people with kids to just up and quit or put themselves in danger of being fired. I stood up for myself at a job once. Employees were treated badly by management, and we were pretty much told to just shut up and deal with. I refused to do that. I spoke up, and lost my job. (I live in an at-will state) A month later my husband lost his job because of huge lay-offs within his company. We were both out of work, with bills piling up and two kids to feed. I don't exactly regret my decision to stand up for myself and coworkers, but I wouldn't want to be in that position again. We almost lost our house, and 4 years later we are still playing catch up with our debt incurred during that bad time. My kids are too important to me, and I wouldn't jeopardize their well-being again, no matter what I have to put up with for a paycheck.
Now when they are older, or gone, or we are in a better place financially with my husband's work, I would see things differently. Do things differently. Right now, all I care about is taking care of my family.
I have actually sent a male CNA into a patient's room to placate mentally ill family member because patient and family ASSUMED he was Doctor, I was just a lowly nurse. We never came out and said that CNA was Dr so and so. That male CNA was in his 20's, the nurses all in their 50's. LOL
Grn Tea tells it like it is. You either sit around complaining, or you change it. It really is that simple.
GrnTea and I are "movers and shakers." Speaking only for myself (although I think I am inferring from her post above that GrnTea feels the same way, but I won't speak for her), this is not because I am a special snowflake. It isn't because I am smarter or better looking (though I may be, see my avatar). It is because I am simply unwilling to work in unpleasant environs, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to work on terms that are unacceptable to me, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to work without parity among my colleagues, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to accept mediocrity for myself or of myself. I have gone the extra mile at everything I have ever done, the classic overachiever. I'm the best employee & colleague you could hope to have. I will give 125% and am expert at my job. I won't be manipulated or taken advantage of, but I will be reliable, and my word is gold. For that reason, no one has ever wanted me to walk away, they have fought to keep me, to work with me instead of against me. I have been willing to work hard, take risks and make sacrifices to ardently avoid those issues. I have tried to affect change when I was dissatisfied, and when that didn't work, I changed situations, I moved on. I never, ever, stayed in any situation that I did not fully appreciate and support and complain that it sucked.
You change it or you leave it. That's it. "I can't leave because..." is a cop out. That's just fear talking. You can't be afraid and be successful and happy. No one ever achieved anything great without taking a risk.
When I read GrnTeas comment, I took it to mean that if one wont step up and affect positive change, then the ought put their head down and keep quiet. Complaining because one is unwilling to do what is necessary is unbecoming, at best.
I agree with the above premise and with GrnTea's advice to look for alternatives in our careers. In my case I had to keep working 2 jobs in home care and all of the abuse that entails because I became a widow with a teenager, lost my home and health insurance. But I knew that once I financially dug out of that and my son got older, that I had to have an "escape" plan from nursing, although I love patient care. I dropped out of my boring MSN program and went in search of other healing modalities, ie, Reiki, Healing Touch, Crystal therapy, Accupressure, holistic nutrition, etc. I am now almost in position to launch a private practice but will need to supplement with SNF per diem gig to cover outrageous health insurance premiums. ( I adore elder care!) I feel some guilt that I am not leading the charge to make the needed changes in our profession. I hope to regain some of that passion and energy, but right now I am just trying to keep my head above water financially and to get my son through college. I hope that I get my "fighting spirit" back and be a little more like you, GrnTea!
FWIW, for whoever asked, when I taught students I was indeed an old meanie. I worked very hard to teach them well and I expected them to work very hard to learn a lot. And my students consistently told me later that they figured out why I was like that and they were so glad I was, because their classmates whose clinical instructors didn't have such high expectations of them were getting shortchanged and weren't learning nearly as much as my groups.
Not all who growl are dangerous. :) Corollary: No one will chew on you if you are tough.
It is because I am simply unwilling to work in unpleasant environs, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to work on terms that are unacceptable to me, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to work without parity among my colleagues, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to accept mediocrity for myself or of myself. I have gone the extra mile at everything I have ever done, the classic overachiever. I'm the best employee & colleague you could hope to have. I will give 125% and am expert at my job. I won't be manipulated or taken advantage of, but I will be reliable, and my word is gold. For that reason, no one has ever wanted me to walk away, they have fought to keep me, to work with me instead of against me. I have been willing to work hard, take risks and make sacrifices to ardently avoid those issues. I have tried to affect change when I was dissatisfied, and when that didn't work, I changed situations, I moved on. I never, ever, stayed in any situation that I did not fully appreciate and support and complain that it sucked. 
BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN
1,158 Posts
Grn Tea tells it like it is. You either sit around complaining, or you change it. It really is that simple.
GrnTea and I are "movers and shakers." Speaking only for myself (although I think I am inferring from her post above that GrnTea feels the same way, but I won't speak for her), this is not because I am a special snowflake. It isn't because I am smarter or better looking (though I may be, see my avatar).
It is because I am simply unwilling to work in unpleasant environs, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to work on terms that are unacceptable to me, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to work without parity among my colleagues, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to accept mediocrity for myself or of myself. I have gone the extra mile at everything I have ever done, the classic overachiever. I'm the best employee & colleague you could hope to have. I will give 125% and am expert at my job. I won't be manipulated or taken advantage of, but I will be reliable, and my word is gold. For that reason, no one has ever wanted me to walk away, they have fought to keep me, to work with me instead of against me. I have been willing to work hard, take risks and make sacrifices to ardently avoid those issues. I have tried to affect change when I was dissatisfied, and when that didn't work, I changed situations, I moved on. I never, ever, stayed in any situation that I did not fully appreciate and support and complain that it sucked.
You change it or you leave it. That's it. "I can't leave because..." is a cop out. That's just fear talking. You can't be afraid and be successful and happy. No one ever achieved anything great without taking a risk.
When I read GrnTeas comment, I took it to mean that if one wont step up and affect positive change, then the ought put their head down and keep quiet. Complaining because one is unwilling to do what is necessary is unbecoming, at best.