Sorry state of Nursing ...

[Howardhughes]

I am a Male RN with about 8 years of work experience in the ER, Prison, Acute PTSD/TBI @ the VA. I came from another Industry (Aviation/Airline), after 9/11 retrained into Nursing with the thought of doing something that "Matters" instead of making a corporation another pile of $$$$. After 8 years this has been my Observation of the current state of affairs within Nursing.

1) I have never been so poorly treated within a professional career as I have been with nursing, Managers MD's and Patients all use you as a human punching bag (I can tolerate some of this from a sick PT but not my peers and above). Unprofessionalism often rules and vengeful remarks and treatment are the norms..ie... I have heard the following from RN's,MD,managers..."shes a stupid ***** (MD), you need to find another line of work (MBA manager to new grad), "you need to pass those meds faster , whats wrong with you, cant hack it" (Charge RN).

2) Call offs and low pay...Name any other profession where you have to take hard earned leave or rotate to a totally different unit and are expected to perform (Board of nursing should demand changes to this its unsafe). BSN starting at 17 to 19 a hr nationwide avg...really...MSN with 5 years unless specially trained 60K...for real...(Bank of America pays a avg of 70 k to 100k for mid level MBA's)

I retired from USAirways in 2003, there were troubles galore with the company..but I was paid well, had exc healthcare...WAS TREATED AS A PROFESSIONAL...WHICH I WAS AND STILL AM.

Nursing as a profession.......only if you join the service as my wife did (CDR USN ret) ....to a hospital your a expenditure that they work like a dog, then throw away.

Its a sad state only getting worse as the economy is slow and Obama care will reshape the industry in pay and quality of care.

Good By Nursing.....it was a experience of a life ...time to do other things.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

Grn Tea tells it like it is. You either sit around complaining, or you change it. It really is that simple.

GrnTea and I are "movers and shakers." Speaking only for myself (although I think I am inferring from her post above that GrnTea feels the same way, but I won't speak for her), this is not because I am a special snowflake. It isn't because I am smarter or better looking (though I may be, see my avatar). It is because I am simply unwilling to work in unpleasant environs, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to work on terms that are unacceptable to me, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to work without parity among my colleagues, I'd walk away. I am unwilling to accept mediocrity for myself or of myself. I have gone the extra mile at everything I have ever done, the classic overachiever. I'm the best employee & colleague you could hope to have. I will give 125% and am expert at my job. I won't be manipulated or taken advantage of, but I will be reliable, and my word is gold. For that reason, no one has ever wanted me to walk away, they have fought to keep me, to work with me instead of against me. I have been willing to work hard, take risks and make sacrifices to ardently avoid those issues. I have tried to affect change when I was dissatisfied, and when that didn't work, I changed situations, I moved on. I never, ever, stayed in any situation that I did not fully appreciate and support and complain that it sucked.

You change it or you leave it. That's it. "I can't leave because..." is a cop out. That's just fear talking. You can't be afraid and be successful and happy. No one ever achieved anything great without taking a risk.

When I read GrnTeas comment, I took it to mean that if one wont step up and affect positive change, then the ought put their head down and keep quiet. Complaining because one is unwilling to do what is necessary is unbecoming, at best.

While I agree with what you are saying, one must realize that not everyone has the option of simply walking away. Some of us have mortgages to pay, bills mounting and mouths to feed, and in this market, walking away is easier said than done. And in some places, a word of complaint can just be a person's one-way ticket out of the door and into the line of unemployment.

So while I respect what you are saying, I think you are oversimplifying the situation. Too many Americans don't have the luxury to up and quit jobs because they are unhappy.

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

You change it or you leave it. That's it. "I can't leave because..." is a cop out. That's just fear talking. You can't be afraid and be successful and happy. No one ever achieved anything great without taking a risk.

When I read GrnTeas comment, I took it to mean that if one wont step up and affect positive change, then the ought put their head down and keep quiet. Complaining because one is unwilling to do what is necessary is unbecoming, at best.

Not all of us have that option to just walk away when we are less than satisfied with our working conditions. It is not "just fear talking" it is our reality. There are not a lot of employers where I live, for every job opening there are a lot of qualified candidates. I [ and others like me] can't change it or leave, we would definitely lose our jobs if we rock the boat too much, and we NEED our jobs! I have a family to support and sure can't risk being jobless to feed my own ego by saying I am not going to take it anymore! Thank God at least here at AN we can vent without fear of reprisal from our boss. It is unfortunate that we apparently have to fear reprisal from our peers both on the job and here at AN

[mclennan, BSN, RN]

You know, I generally really enjoy and respect the contributions of GrnTea & BlueDevilNP, and tend to agree with their points of view across the board. I value the wisdom imparted by experience, but I think they (and others like them) have lost touch with what it means in 2013 to be a rank & file, med surg floor nurse or LTC laborer. Or a new grad, for that matter.

With all due respect, you both sometimes oversimplify for the sake of sounding sanctimonious. Yes, we are ALL too well aware of your superior intellect and years of experience, but be careful of veering into the territory of insulting your minions here on AN for doing exactly what online forums are really for - venting and sharing feeling amongst peers. Being dismissively told "quit or change it," is not only totally unrealistic and incredibly patronizing, but it makes you both look very far removed from what life is like in the trenches these days.

If you are sick and tired of hearing the complaining, don't listen to it. Listening to it, then berating those who have a very real need for that type of camaraderie, and come here to feel safe in seeking it, isn't indicative of a "mover" or "shaker." It's indicative of the "young-eating" nurse stereotype no one wants. It does not reflect well of people who are leaders in this forum.

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

Beg to differ, having quit a job to start my own company...in my 50s, with no backup. As I said, I'm not asking anyone to do anything I haven't done.

BlueDevilNP and I are not personally acquainted, but I hazard the guess that we are both old enough to have seen these cycles several times over. You will likely be saying the same things when you are this ancient.

For sake of clarity, my message was, "Quit whining or work toward change." Still stands.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

^Agree...

Don't let bills fear your into horrible working conditions.

I have lost jobs and the ability to work in the past five years..I have told my story on AN.

I still found places to work an have made those aspects of this business most satisfying.

They do have the experience of knowing "how it is"...what we gripe about is nothing new, and realize where they are coming from; they are more seasoned, but have been through some "sky is falling" moments in nursing in their areas.

They're not "reprising" anyone; they KNOW our stories and been in those Danskos or sneakers.

The most we owe to ourselves is to find our niche, or a place where one can have satisfaction in this business; and it's not few and far in between...sometimes it's in being in business for your patients and yourself; while working on evolving your nursing environment.

[Susie2310]

^Agree...

Don't let bills fear your into horrible working conditions.

I have lost jobs and the ability to work in the past five years..I have told my story on AN.

I still found places to work an have made those aspects of this business most satisfying.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but from previous posts on AN I understand you are in your early thirties and do not have spousal/family obligations. Some people have mentioned on this thread that it is much harder to vote with one's feet when one has a family to support and there are few if any other job opportunities available. One's own fulfillment and personal preferences often have to take second place when one has a family to consider. I congratulate you on having overcome severe personal hardships, but when you have other people depending on your income and do not have the luxury of personal wealth, family support, or another source of income, you will very carefully weigh the risks of throwing up your miserable job, which at least allows you to feed your children, pay your bills and keep a roof over your head. You may view the security of the miserable job you have as the price you are willing to pay for not risking your ability to feed, clothe and house your family.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but from previous posts on AN I understand you are in your early thirties and do not have spousal/family obligations. Some people have mentioned on this thread that it is much harder to vote with one's feet when one has a family to support and there are few if any other job opportunities available. One's own fulfillment and personal preferences often have to take second place when one has a family to consider. I congratulate you on having overcome severe personal hardships, but when you have other people depending on your income and do not have the luxury of personal wealth, family support, or another source of income, you will very carefully weigh the risks of throwing up your miserable job, which at least allows you to feed your children, pay your bills and keep a roof over your head. You may view the security of the miserable job you have as the price you are willing to pay for not risking your ability to feed, clothe and house your family.

I have familial and financial obligations that you have NO IDEA about. My age has NOTHING to do with my RESPONSIBILITY.

I took care of my parents, as well as family members that were ill and it fell on hard times in the REAL height of the economy-this was BEFORE the 2008 hit. I was the breadwinner if my family, and was able to do so until my major medical happened, in 2008.

I had to make DIFFICULT decisions in maintaing a home-getting my home out of foreclosure, access to healthcare, lights on and clothes on kiddos that needed it...it had made me all too aware and could have shaken the standards I worked TOO hard for early in my career...I cam into this profession with my EYES WIDE OPEN; I CHOOSE to continue to be the change that I seek in this profession, which has been a great fit for me.

I became an independent contractor to help sustain and bridge the gap in order to LIVE; and I'm not being melodramatic; I almost died; situation not in my control; I KNOW the feelings loss of control; lack of choices, doors being shut and the looks of sympathy AND scorn.

I worked somewhere where they were NO policies and procedures...instead of throwing up my hands, I started asking, and collecting and organizing; I helped institute CHANGE in my workplace; on the other side of the coin I have voted with my feet while facing all utilites ready to pull the plug and the mortgage company and student loans ringing off the hook early in my career; and faced it recently as a NEW GRAD RN; it took me awhile to find it, in the here and NOW, I will take it.

I know VERY much aware of hard times In the middle of them, even now, I strangely utilized the nursing process to successful in my career; to cope, and survive; I went independent contractor to ensure I survive; I had to step out if my comfort zone to sustain and maintain; the only "luxury" I have is my freedom of choice...and the risks and the setback and achievements, I wouldn't change for the world.

I needed to do what I could to continue to survive and enjoy my career. I learned in my roughest, darkest times that bitterness would eat me alive and threaten to steal my joy; and the knowledge that people with spirits like Grn and BDNP...people like my family, teachers, mentors, and my experiences got me out of those situations...did it take me awhile??? Am I out of the clear...not yet...am I happy about it??? Not always but I will keep going, and changing, and advocating, especially WHEN it is needed. It has always been in mine's-and nursing's history's-favor.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

Don't worry about bills? What world do you live in and can I join you?

No, they don't know all of our stories as each story is unique to each individual. The job market has changed. I talk to older nurses who are way out of touch with what new grads go through, some who still believe there is a nursing shortage and that nursing is very stable. Easy to say when one has thirty years of experience. It is easy to tell people to quit whining when they are at the top of the food chain and have years of experience and financial stability but as for this up and coming generation, the game has changed dramatically.

^Agree... :yes

Don't let bills fear your into horrible working conditions.

I have lost jobs and the ability to work in the past five years..I have told my story on AN.

I still found places to work an have made those aspects of this business most satisfying.

They do have the experience of knowing "how it is"...what we gripe about is nothing new, and realize where they are coming from; they are more seasoned, but have been through some "sky is falling" moments in nursing in their areas.

They're not "reprising" anyone; they KNOW our stories and been in those Danskos or sneakers.

The most we owe to ourselves is to find our niche, or a place where one can have satisfaction in this business; and it's not few and far in between...sometimes it's in being in business for your patients and yourself; while working on evolving your nursing environment.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

Don't worry about bills? What world do you live in and can I join you?

No, they don't know all of our stories as each story is unique to each individual. The job market has changed. I talk to older nurses who are way out of touch with what new grads go through, some who still believe there is a nursing shortage and that nursing is very stable. Easy to say when one has thirty years of experience. It is easy to tell people to quit whining when they are at the top of the food chain and have years of experience and financial stability but as for this up and coming generation, the game has changed dramatically.

I don't know any nurses who have 30-50 years that keep trumpeting the nursing shortage... most are not at the "top of the food chain" and have the risk of being kicked to the curb too for someone younger and/or cheaper. They are aware of the challenges, and have challenges of their own as well.

The nursing salary hasn't changed in almost a generation...it has stagnated, and in some places, the intent to decrease our income is in place...those bedside nurses are still here, and some of those have walked in our shoes and have made improvements to our profession...there always room for improvement; and plenty of historians that have done it; the game has not changed; ; it's just on another level.

[Art_Vandelay]

A little cheese with that whine?

Don't mourn, organize! Of course it's possible. How many of you whiners will step up and put what it takes into unionizing, put their livelihood on the line for the betterment of others? Show of hands? Anyone? :: peering into the ether :: Anyone? (And yes, I have been present at the beginning of a nurses' union, and yes, I have been out on strike. So there.) Anyone here ever do that? Risk something more than a few whiny electrons? No? OK.

Ok then. I don't care what you do. Just this: Stop whining.

I am so tired of this attitude. Whining proves nothing, does nothing, solves nothing. Go get another certification or education that will get you a better paying position you'll like. Start your own business and be your own boss. Go live in the woods and haul your own water. Volunteer your time and treasure towards effective unionizing and collective bargaining. Join the Peace Corps and do something for somebody else-- I hear they have three-12 month tours available now. Take up bungee jumping or yoga. Go visit every Major League Baseball park. Learn to make beer. Do something. I really don't care what you do.

But just ... stop coming here and whining. All of you. It makes my hair hurt. Go do something.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! ::runs screaming off into the distance::

With all due respect, I find this post very belittling. For someone who has been looking for work and applied to countless jobs, I am supposed to "stop whining" and "go live in the woods"? It is difficult to remain an optimist after countless rejections. I am furthering my education, while continuing to accrue more debt. The solution is not as simple as one makes it to be. Members of Congress could care less about the state our healthcare system is in; they don't even care if our government shuts down, so long as they have a nice house to go home to and corporate lobbyists willing to give them money.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

Hmmmm....

I will have to agree with the whole "cheese with your whine" argument. At least to some extent.

The only way your facility (or nursing as a whole, if you wanna get all dramatic) is going to change is through the action of its nurses. It takes action to affect change. Period. Whining (excuse me, "venting") on an online message board affects nothing. Never has, never will.

As for venting being a healthy outlet or whatever, well, I guess. Maybe. For some people. Mostly it's just an unproductive waste of time.

If your work situation is such that you find it intolerable, you can either quit, or work to change it. Those are really your only options.

With all that said, I find "just change it if you don't like it" to be exceedingly impractical advice. For some of us, our job is only a small part of our life. Something we do to pay the bills. I have zero interest in investing the time and energy it would require. I refuse to make my job any bigger a part of my life than it already is. If my facility and its policies don't always meet some perfect ideal, well so be it. I will just keep my head down, do the best I can with what I have, and pick my battles. There's nothing noble about fighting an unwinnable battle. That's just foolish. Nothing I say or do will convince the powers that be that it's unsafe to have one LPN for 49 residents. All that will happen is I will get fired.

Are we all supposed to be martyrs for the great institution of nursing? How absurd.

[ANnot4me]

Nurses are responsible for the current state of the profession. I know of too many nurses who participate in the delivery of care that they would not wish upon themselves or their family in exchange for money.