Sorry state of Nursing ...

[Howardhughes]

I am a Male RN with about 8 years of work experience in the ER, Prison, Acute PTSD/TBI @ the VA. I came from another Industry (Aviation/Airline), after 9/11 retrained into Nursing with the thought of doing something that "Matters" instead of making a corporation another pile of $$$$. After 8 years this has been my Observation of the current state of affairs within Nursing.

1) I have never been so poorly treated within a professional career as I have been with nursing, Managers MD's and Patients all use you as a human punching bag (I can tolerate some of this from a sick PT but not my peers and above). Unprofessionalism often rules and vengeful remarks and treatment are the norms..ie... I have heard the following from RN's,MD,managers..."shes a stupid ***** (MD), you need to find another line of work (MBA manager to new grad), "you need to pass those meds faster , whats wrong with you, cant hack it" (Charge RN).

2) Call offs and low pay...Name any other profession where you have to take hard earned leave or rotate to a totally different unit and are expected to perform (Board of nursing should demand changes to this its unsafe). BSN starting at 17 to 19 a hr nationwide avg...really...MSN with 5 years unless specially trained 60K...for real...(Bank of America pays a avg of 70 k to 100k for mid level MBA's)

I retired from USAirways in 2003, there were troubles galore with the company..but I was paid well, had exc healthcare...WAS TREATED AS A PROFESSIONAL...WHICH I WAS AND STILL AM.

Nursing as a profession.......only if you join the service as my wife did (CDR USN ret) ....to a hospital your a expenditure that they work like a dog, then throw away.

Its a sad state only getting worse as the economy is slow and Obama care will reshape the industry in pay and quality of care.

Good By Nursing.....it was a experience of a life ...time to do other things.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

The big issue is that nursing, unlike most professions, does not standardize or regulate itself. We have so many people coming out with diplomas, ADNs, BSNs....there is no universal point of entry, and whether some nurses want to admit it, this is a big issue. If nurses raised the standard to a BSN, we would be taken more seriously.

*** It's only a big issue with nurses. Not anyone else. Please explain your rational for your assertion that we would be taken more seriously if BSN was required for entry to practice. I am interested to hear it.

As a nurse who is taken very seriously by all I work with I don't see what the issue is in the first place. One phone call from me has triggered many a highly trained and paid surgeons to leap out of their beds and drive pel-mel for the hospital to see their patient. One phone call from me and I can put helicopters in the air and ambulances on the road. Just the threat of me making a call to an attending (who I know well and have a working relationship built on trust with) can cause a whole gaggle of interns and residents to shake in their boots. With just a few words from me I can have police subdue anyone in the hospital. I can restrain any patient who needs it (at least temporarily). I can make a call and activate the whole staff of a cath lab. If I fail to get a central line in I can make a phone call and have interventional radiologists and technicians drop what they are doing and come to the hospital. I have gotten soldiers sent home from war and prisoners let out of jail (to see dying parents in the ICU) just on my word.

I am taken very seriously and realize it's a huge responsibility. No cardiac surgeon or helicopter pilot or police officer ever asked what degree I have before taking action.

In addition, nurses desperately need UNIONS.

*** Could not agree more.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

*** It's only a big issue with nurses. Not anyone else. Please explain your rational for your assertion that we would be taken more seriously if BSN was required for entry to practice. I am interested to hear it.

As a nurse who is taken very seriously by all I work with I don't see what the issue is in the first place. One phone call from me has triggered many a highly trained and paid surgeons to leap out of their beds and drive pel-mel for the hospital to see their patient. One phone call from me and I can put helicopters in the air and ambulances on the road. Just the threat of me making a call to an attending (who I know well and have a working relationship built on trust with) can cause a whole gaggle of interns and residents to shake in their boots. With just a few words from me I can have police subdue anyone in the hospital. I can restrain any patient who needs it (at least temporarily). I can make a call and activate the whole staff of a cath lab. If I fail to get a central line in I can make a phone call and have interventional radiologists and technicians drop what they are doing and come to the hospital.

I am taken very seriously and realize it's a huge responsibility. No cardiac surgeon or helicopter pilot or police officer ever asked what degree I have before taking action.

*** Could not agree more.

I had a feeling that someone would take offense to what I said....but I don't want to turn this into another ADN vs BSN debate.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

I had a feeling that someone would take offense to what I said....but I don't want to turn this into another ADN vs BSN debate.

*** Hmm, trying to figure out how you have come to the mistaken belief that any offense was taken? Or how you could think you have started an ADN vs BSN debate?

It's simple. You made a claim. I would like to hear your rational for your claim. Dodging requests to hear your rational by hiding behind nonexistent ADN vs BSN debates and supposed offence isn't helpful.

[plumbtrician]

I am graduating in 8 months. I plan on getting involved in the Union at my first opportunity. What are you going to do to improve working conditions for nurses?

[BostonFNP, APRN]

*** It's only a big issue with nurses. Not anyone else. Please explain your rational for your assertion that we would be taken more seriously if BSN was required for entry to practice. I am interested to hear it. As a nurse who is taken very seriously by all I work with I don't see what the issue is in the first place. One phone call from me has triggered many a highly trained and paid surgeons to leap out of their beds and drive pel-mel for the hospital to see their patient. One phone call from me and I can put helicopters in the air and ambulances on the road. Just the threat of me making a call to an attending (who I know well and have a working relationship built on trust with) can cause a whole gaggle of interns and residents to shake in their boots. With just a few words from me I can have police subdue anyone in the hospital. I can restrain any patient who needs it (at least temporarily). I can make a call and activate the whole staff of a cath lab. If I fail to get a central line in I can make a phone call and have interventional radiologists and technicians drop what they are doing and come to the hospital. I have gotten soldiers sent home from war and prisoners let out of jail (to see dying parents in the ICU) just on my word. I am taken very seriously and realize it's a huge responsibility. No cardiac surgeon or helicopter pilot or police officer ever asked what degree I have before taking action. *** Could not agree more.

Clearly you are a nurse to be feared and revered, at least by your own report. I am sure you are taken very seriously. I am also sure you are not a new grad entering practice so your personal tales, however inspiring, don't directly relate to entry to practice. What year did you start nursing? Do you think nursing (as a profession) has changed since then? Do you think our healthcare system has change since then? Do you think our society's view on education has changed since then? Do you think the body of research on the topic has changed since then?

[volcanikred]

This is a second career for me and I have to say I have mixed feelings. I would just suck up the abuse at work for a couple of years, then go to an agency to get a change of scenery. However, the noose is tightening because I think the hospitals have caught on and are "punishing" freelancers and uppity nurse by just plain not hiring them. They'd rather hire a new grad and stick it to the experienced nurses. They also have a "wait and see" attitude about hiring. They know it is illegal to

mandate, but they do it anyway. There is no excuse for call outs when the census is low. They could staff low and use agency

when the census spikes, but they don't want to pay the agency fee. Unions are the only answer. Patient advocacy groups

are NOT our friends, either.

[BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN]

OP: From one guy to another, get out of the hospital! It has become the lowest point in Professional Nursing. We all know quality direct patient care is critically important, but let's face it, the environment is not hospitable (lol) to overachievers because of the micromanagement. If you are at all interested in staying in Nursing, go for academia or business, you will find a much more rewarding and cultivated atmosphere. Consider education with a CEU provider! I am doing more and more speaking/teaching with an educational company that offers CEUs to MDs, PAs, & NPs, and I find it extremely satisfying. I am a NP, but not all of the speakers are providers; they all have have content expertise, and plenty of them are nurses. There is also some fun travel involved. I'm doing an education cruise next year!

Become expert at one aspect you enjoy and then market yourself. Everyone is very anxious to find qualified, talented speakers and you will be well compensated. If you know your subject area well, you will be respected by all the participants, regardless of their educational background.

I have such a good time at the seminars, and I am making very valuable contacts at every event. I've had some interesting job and business opportunity/investment offers as a result. It's all about the network, network, network, and that is not going not happen for you if you stay in the herd. Break out, do something extraordinary. You can still enjoy it. Good luck.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Clearly you are a nurse to be feared and revered, at least by your own report. I am sure you are taken very seriously.

*** (sigh) It's NOT about me. I was using things I do to illustrate what thousands of nurses across this country do every day. There are 5 full time RRT RNs in my hospital. Everyone of them does similar things daily. So do countless ICU, ER, transport, and other kinds of nurses.

A friend is the ER charge nurse in the local small rural hospital. Every cop, firefighter, EMT, paramedic, doctor and nurse in the county knows exactly who she is and does whatever she tells them. She gets things done! She is a force of nature and taken very seriously by all. However I know that she isn't the only one out there. Tens of thousands of RNs across the country are in similar rolls and do whatever it takes to make sure their patients get the care they need.

I am also sure you are not a new grad entering practice so your personal tales, however inspiring, don't directly relate to entry to practice.

*** I was responding to post #83 and this statement:

" If nurses raised the standard to a BSN, we would be taken more seriously."

The point I was making is that I see no evidence that nurses are not taken seriously now. I asked the poster to provide her rational for her statement. I asked for it because I realize my perspective is limited. Quite possibly, probably, she had a rational I hadn't even considered.

What year did you start nursing?

*** 1995. What about you?

Do you think nursing (as a profession) has changed since then? Do you think our healthcare system has change since then? Do you think our society's view on education has changed since then?

*** Certainly things have changed in health care. In my view they have changed much less than other people think.

I see evidence that society's views on education are changing dramatically. I see that many more people are questioning the very high cost vs benefit of traditional college education.

If you want one small example of what I am talking about read up on the five brothers who chose to start a business rather than go to college. The business is called "5 Guys Burgers and Fries".

My observation is that in todays society, one burdened with vast student loan debt and limited employment opportunities, the view of traditional education is changing. The state I live in has a wonderful university system. However it is the community and technical college system that is providing the lever to raise the state out of the depression.

Even medical education is changing in response to societies changing views. Look at the growth of 3 year medical programs. These programs cover everything the 4 years ones do, but at 25% less cost for non education costs like living expenses.

I think nursing is way behind society and the lag in it's thinking is showing.

For a better explanation of this you might consider reading the book "Walden on Wheels".

Do you think the body of research on the topic has changed since then?

*** If there ever was, or is now, any research out there describing how seriously nurses are taken I am unaware of it.

[workinmomRN2012, BSN]

@GrnTea- Some people actually do need to come on AN to vent because it's a release and it makes them feel better, so that to me IS taking action. Unionizing would take a long time, venting is immediate. It sounds as though you are one of the nursing instructors that give students a hard time in nursing school and cause good potential nurses to rethink their career choices. Empathize, that's what we are taught is nursing school, or have you forgotten!?

I remember when I first became a nurse a while ago and I needed to vent so I came on here to vent and for suggestions, you were one of the first to criticize me for thinking that "nurses eat their young". Are you part of the problem? You DO live up to your name "crusty old bat". It needed to be said!

[SubSippi]

OK, I'll bite. I took the advice of another nurse and quit working for other people to start my own company. Yes, I was broke for awhile; I have paid off those debts. I took a lot of education before that (earned 4-year BS in nursing, earned 2-year real MN, not a phone-it-in online one where you write the same paper over and over), took jobs in new and unfamiliar areas for the experience, took it upon myself to get the experience and education for several advanced certifications, and now I am beholden only to the clients I choose to work for. I mentor and nurture other newbies in my field, am very active in my professional organization, and write and publish.

When I was younger and prettier I did participate actively in a new nursing union in my medical center, when the state nurses assoc was lax in representing us at contract time, so we did it ourselves.

I got an award in the last few years for promoting nursing in the popular media. I go to the State House when they have hearings about nursing staffing levels, advanced practice licensure, and the like. I write letters to the editor (which are often published) educating people about the power and responsibility of nurses, and pointing out that I am tired of seeing them seek only MD quotes on health-related issues when there are more of us and often we know more about the topic. I see the beginnings of change in that from time to time.

And I do a wee bit o' work pumping up professionality and personal responsibility over on the AN Student side and for beginners in my Specialty fora. That's my contribution to the real young'uns around here. :)

I'm not the goddess's gift to nursing but I'm not asking anybody to do what I won't do. I put on my socks one at a time like everyone else, have the same fears and joys of daughtering, parenting, grandparenting, and spouse-ing; I clean up cat hairballs, mow the lawn, watch baseball, read the daily paper, donate to charity when I can, and vote in every election. I'm sorta like ... you.

I just got over sitting around and whining about things a long time ago. I got beat up and tear-gassed for peace in the 60s and 70s, and this stuff looks easy by comparison.

Since you ask.

Get it girl

[gcupid]

It's just certain things that men won't put up with in general, hence the small percentage of men in the profession. More men in the field would improve working conditions as well as a group of other things...

[workinmomRN2012, BSN]

@elkpark- very professionally put. When I first became a nurse I did come on here to vent but then I did take action and applied to other jobs and found a place where I am very comfortable. Is it perfect? no, but I don't feel that it's an environment of gossip, criticisms and general unhelpful coworkers.