So I guess it is true...

[ThePrincessBride]

Nurses really do eat their young.

Long story short. My last quarter's clinical instructor told me in feedback via paper, that I was good. Good in clinical. My last clinical, I made a mistake in accuchecks and made too many attempts to get an accucheck. I own up to my mistake and have not had any more problems in accucheck.

So this scholarship opportunities arises. I need a letter of recommendation. So, I e-mail her asking if she would be willing to give me a reference. No response. Tried again about a week later...still no response. So I email her a third time (the deadline is REALLY approaching) and she finally answers. Her answer? She is "uncomfortable" with my clinical skills and feels she won't be able to give me a good reference. And she waits FOUR days before the deadline even though I've emailed her twice before in 2.5 weeks.

This whole time she made me believe that I was doing a good job. Told me verbally and even in our comments papers. Not once did she tell me, outside of the accucheck incident, that I was doing anything wrong (told me I was doing very good).

So I e-mailed her back requesting a meeting for specific feedback, and I even typed out the misleading comments she gave me that made me believe I was doing good. I also told her that it is unacceptable to not give a student feedback and to check her off when he/she is doing something wrong.

I feel like if I don't get a meeting or if she isn't specific that I should file a complaint against her.

Luckily, my present clinical instructor says she will give me a recommendation. She says that my clinical skills are average but feels that if I work hard enough, I will be able to improve my skills.

Am I going about this the right way?

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

Again, maybe she felt you are good when it comes to where you should be for your level of education and skill, but not good enough for her to write a letter of recommendation. It hurts, I know, but there isn't much you can do about it. Most people are average, that's why it's called the average. Wanting to be more than that is a wonderful thing. Take this experience as an opportunity to learn and grow and you'll be great!

Excelling clinically means different things at different levels. In your first semester if you can take vitals and give a bed bath, you're doing great. If that was all you could do in your last semester, you would be terrible.

I also don't understand the dichotomy between excelling clinically and in theory. To be a good nurse, you have to be good at both. It's not an either/or proposition. You can't be good clinically without being good at theory.

I don't know...how much theory does a nurse even use on the floor?

I guess I would have prefered if she had outright told me I'm average and couldn't give me a great recommendation. To me, uncomfortable implies being below average and unsafe. How is that supposed to make a person feel? I wish she had given me more specific examples on what I did wrong and how I could have improved...I feel like I was left in the dark about all of this!

[♑ Capricorn ♑]

@ theprincessbride

you're a student for pete's sake! if you're going to make mistakes in school, this would be the time to do it. doesn't your instructor get this?? it is really hypocritical to me. nursing students are in school to learn. professors who expect our skills to be 100% on all the time are only setting themselves up for denial. yes, they expect a certain standard from us. i do believe there should be a limit. but, to pass someone off on clinicals and then not necessarily stand by one's actions is just wrong. she should've emailed you earlier and she should've gave you honest advice.

i do feel bad for you. i hope it works itself out. :)

good luck!

[Aurora77]

I don't know...how much theory does a nurse even use on the floor?

OK, you've officially lost me now. Could you tell me times when you wouldn't be using theory? It's not enough to perform tasks well, you have to know why you're doing them.

[OCNRN63, RN]

But I was never told I was doing something wrong in clincal...that's the problem.

You're not doing a very good job of listening to others who have been trying to help you here. This thread could have been a learning experience for you, but it has not.

And IIRC, you were the one who started this thread making it about experienced nurses not being willing to help new nurses/students.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

I agree with the posters above. I am relatively new (approximately two years as an RN) and I can tell you this is not nurses eating their young.

To be quite honest, you should have dropped it when your first request was met with silence and pursued other recommendations. It was rude to continue to email her.

Further, there is a huge difference between telling a fair to middle student that she is doing well and flunking someone who's clinical skills clearly don't match her level of clinical practice. ex. student is a third semester but has the skills of a first semester.

I know she is busy, and that was why I thought she didn't reply. She has a two hour commute, and nothing led me to believe that I was out of line to ask for a simple recommendation (and I hate having to ask the teachers for anything outside of school).

I just don't know if my skills are even good enough for a second term student, and while I take partial responsibility for this, I also feel that she was wrong for not correcting me when I wasn't doing something correctly.

[threelittlebirds]

What?! Theory is everything.If you're not using it in absolutely everything you do, that could be your problem. Know what you're doing before you do it. Know why. If you don't, ask...and learn it.

I think that you might have misunderstood your preceptor. By uncomfortable, she very well may have meant that she was uncomfortable writing a recommendation because your clinical skills were not at the level they should be. Being below average doesn't necessarily mean unsafe, which is why she might have passed you.

There are also a lot of people out there who don't take well to criticism. It could be that early in your rotation she may have tried to provide more specific feedback and you replied with "I know" or "I was doing that" or "They taught us this way." She might've just given up and passed you because you weren't good, but weren't horrible..and her energy was wasted trying to teach. That doesn't mean she was comfortable with your clinical skills. Ever hear her say, "You're doing that well, but..." ? Maybe you didn't hear anything but the positive.

I can see from all of your replies here that you're getting defensive, and I would not be at all surprised if you carried that behavior over to clinical. Ask someone in your clinical group (not a friend) what you're doing...and try to change your behaviors.

Also, "average" skills that could "use improvement" sounds a lot to me like you need to be spending every free moment practicing in the lab. Your new preceptor might just feel bad for you and is sugarcoating.

I don't mean to sound harsh. I hope that one day you are in a place where you can take this advice. Doesn't sound like you're listening to anyone on here.

[escapebigd]

You might not have been doing things wrong in clinical, just average, and with more practice it could become like natural. You're still a student, you still have the opportunity to become a great nurse, but letting one teacher make you anxious about your ability with one word might be a bit of an overreaction. Take your current teachers advice and work harder, study longer on skills, and try to buddy up with one of your type A peers who can offer honest, constructive criticism about your skills.

I tend to agree with the others that there is a difference between good and letter of recommendation worthy. You may have been good enough to pass clinicals, and that might have been reflected in your grade at the end of clinicals, but you might not have been great which could be her requirement for a letter of recommendation. She might feel uncomfortable with your clinical skills when comparing them to the level she would write a letter of recommendation for.

Also when did she tell the group of students that she would write the letter, towards the beginning of the semester or end? It makes a difference that she didn't tell just YOU that she would write the letter, but a group. She might have been willing to write towards the majority of that group, but not every person.

Your writing style or tone, does seem aggressive as mentioned previously. This might have come across in the subsequent emails to your professor when you didn't get a timely response. I know that sometimes my writing can take on an edgy tone or somewhat of an indignant one when I'm not pleased with something. This tone might have been what caused her to give a harsher response than what she may have originally thought of you as well. Before you go into that meeting, if there is one, you might want to role play with a peer to prepare yourself to keep your emotions in check. Getting angry or flustered during this will not help you get your point across to your teacher, but will make you look foolish and too emotional.

I really hope this works out for you and that you find some sort of resolution or peace in this matter.

[VICEDRN, BSN, RN]

I know she is busy, and that was why I thought she didn't reply. She has a two hour commute, and nothing led me to believe that I was out of line to ask for a simple recommendation (and I hate having to ask the teachers for anything outside of school).I just don't know if my skills are even good enough for a second term student, and while I take partial responsibility for this, I also feel that she was wrong for not correcting me when I wasn't doing something correctly.

You're kind of stubborn or you don't take the time to carefully read posts as they appear. I didn't say the first query was out of line. Its the subsequent ones are out of line.And please clarify what makes you think she personally had knowledge of you doing something wrong. You don't have any evidence of that, do you? As I said, it may be that your aggressive attitude is what makes her withhold her recommendation. And it may be that she would have written it at the last minute but changed her mind after you began harassing her.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

You're kind of stubborn or you don't take the time to carefully read posts as they appear. I didn't say the first query was out of line. Its the subsequent ones are out of line.And please clarify what makes you think she personally had knowledge of you doing something wrong. You don't have any evidence of that, do you? As I said, it may be that your aggressive attitude is what makes her withhold her recommendation. And it may be that she would have written it at the last minute but changed her mind after you began harassing her.

The only reason I may have sound pushy was because the dead line is on Tuesday, and I hadn't heard anything from her. And I needed two recommendations. It would have been nice for her to have responded a lot sooner than she did. I don't think it was fair to have had that happen.

[netglow, ASN, RN]

Op, what you are missing is this: Being able to pass a college course does not a professional in the working world make.

I have given and have received many references. I know that I only give a reference to someone I have worked closely with whom I can practically promise will perform at the highest levels and become invaluable. The people I have on my reference list and have glowing letters from, are those to whom I have proven my abilities. They would call me to help them in business/nursing without a second thought. We have a firm bond that includes respect, trust, dependability, as well as being of "like" mind.

Bottom line: Your references put their reputation as professionals on the line by referring you. It's not something taken lightly.

Your instructor is simply not interested in putting her reputation on the line by recommending you to other professionals.

I'd not have sent that email to her. You need to take a time-out and think about your image.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

What?! Theory is everything.If you're not using it in absolutely everything you do, that could be your problem. Know what you're doing before you do it. Know why. If you don't, ask...and learn it.

I think that you might have misunderstood your preceptor. By uncomfortable, she very well may have meant that she was uncomfortable writing a recommendation because your clinical skills were not at the level they should be. Being below average doesn't necessarily mean unsafe, which is why she might have passed you.

Below average students shouldn't pass....nor should a clinical instructor pass someone whose skills make him/her uncomfortable.

There are also a lot of people out there who don't take well to criticism. It could be that early in your rotation she may have tried to provide more specific feedback and you replied with "I know" or "I was doing that" or "They taught us this way." She might've just given up and passed you because you weren't good, but weren't horrible..and her energy was wasted trying to teach. That doesn't mean she was comfortable with your clinical skills. Ever hear her say, "You're doing that well, but..." ? Maybe you didn't hear anything but the positive.

No, I didn't hear anything but "good job." With this new instructor, she lets me know that I need to work on X, Y, Z...and I'm glad she does. For example, we were practicing IAPP techniques for the adomen, and she had no problem telling me that I needed to work on my technique. And guess what I will be doing before clinicals? Practicing this on my younger brothers.

I have no problem with getting constructive criticism. Problem is, she just told me "good job" and passed me on. And that frustrates me that I'm hearing just now, after four weeks of clinicals with her and two with another instructor, that I made her feel uncomfortable. A little late, don't you think?

I can see from all of your replies here that you're getting defensive, and I would not be at all surprised if you carried that behavior over to clinical. Ask someone in your clinical group (not a friend) what you're doing...and try to change your behaviors.

Also, "average" skills that could "use improvement" sounds a lot to me like you need to be spending every free moment practicing in the lab. Your new preceptor might just feel bad for you and is sugarcoating.

I don't mean to sound harsh. I hope that one day you are in a place where you can take this advice. Doesn't sound like you're listening to anyone on here.

Of course, the clinical instructor can NEVER be wrong...it is always the student. Has it ever occured to you that there are clinical instructors who don't care to help other students and just pass them along so they won't have to deal with them next year? Happens all the time in the American educational system...and it isn't fair to the student.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

Op, what you are missing is this: Being able to pass a college course does not a professional in the working world make.

I have given and have received many references. I know that I only give a reference to someone I have worked closely with whom I can practically promise will perform at the highest levels and become invaluable. The people I have on my reference list and have glowing letters from, are those to whom I have proven my abilities. They would call me to help them in business/nursing without a second thought. We have a firm bond that includes respect, trust, dependability, as well as being of "like" mind.

Bottom line: Your references put their reputation as professionals on the line by referring you. It's not something taken lightly.

Your instructor is simply not interested in putting her reputation on the line by recommending you to other professionals.

I'd not have sent that email to her. You need to take a time-out and think about your image.

And yet, I was never given the chance to prove myself...something only a couple of posters have seen to grasp...