Should a nursing instructor tell a student they are not nursing material.

That Guy, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Feb 14, 2009

Yes, but there is a right way and wrong way to do that. Calling a student out in the middle of class with that type of comment is the WRONG way. Very unprofessional and speaks poorly for the instructor.

I've been called out in class by 2 of my instructors that I should change professions because of my "questionable ethics" ( read: I didnt agree with them ) It didnt bother me one bit. If anything it made me try that much harder to prove them wrong.

meluhn · Feb 14, 2009

As a new nursing instructor I would like to tell a couple of my students that they are not nursing material. Some people just don't get it. There is alot more to being a nurse than making good grades and having a good heart. The clinical area is where you really see what people are like. I have noticed that some people simply don't make the connection between what they learn in school and what they do in the clinical area with patients. They just don't get the whole nursing process thing. That does not mean they can't eventually learn but it really gets frustrating when you are telling the same people the same things over and over again and they just don't seem to get it. Now I know why nursing instructors always seemed so mean. As far as her being 450 pounds, we are not allowed to discriminate but I can understand why someone would be inclined to. As nurses, ideally we are supposed to model healthy behaviors. How is a 450 lb person going to talk to a diabetic about a healthy diet and exercise program and expect that patient to keep a straight face? I personally feel that obesity is akin to being an alcoholic. Obese people are addicted to food. I know I will get a million replies from fat people saying they are not--they just have a sluggish thyroid. But the truth is, they have disfunctional coping mechanisms that involve over eating. That being said, do I think nurses are not allowed to have a little emotional baggage like everyone else? No not at all. But I do think we should be at least in fair health mentally and physically in order to do our jobs well. An obese person is suffering emotionally and physically.

FLmomof5 · Feb 14, 2009

In Ruby's defense...

Aside from the obesity issue I mentioned in my previous post...

IMHO they are the BEST able to determine who is or is not nursing material. I am currently a computer programmer. I have seen people graduate from school with 3.9 GPAs who couldn't code their way out of a paper bag! After hand holding for months I realised this person was not programmer material. Maybe they could use her in QA/testing. You either have it or you don't. Most folks don't realize that. Real programmers do. She resented it and pointed out her GPA. SO WHAT?!?! You can either do it or you can't!

Next, ROTC instructors determine who is Officer material or not. My brother (son of a LTC and brother to a 1LT (me)), was told that he was not Officer material by an FTO at camp who had only known him less than a month. That was a permanent end to his dream. (BTW, I do agree with that assessment, I just didn't want to be the one to tell my brother that!)

You are a student. Who are you to say you know more than the instructor? Being sweet and nice and loving does NOT make you a great nurse. It makes you a great baby sitter.

Would you like to be the family member whose relation passed because this 400+++ lb nurse couldn't ambulate down the hall fast enough to save him/her? How is a 400+++ lb woman going to teach a patient about the value of nutrition? And what happens when 400+++ lb nurse is on an elevator when the doors open and there is a patient on a gurney being transported by and with other nurses/techs/MDs and they have to wait for another elevator because they can't fit with her in it or it would exceed the max capacity of the elevator?

meluhn · Feb 14, 2009

What were they refering to when they said questionable ethics?

meluhn · Feb 14, 2009

Heres a news flash--Some people aren't smart enough to be nurses. I get so sick of this generation being all like"We're all winners because we tried" No. Some people are smart and others are stupid. Fact of life. Nursing is not a charity degree and you do have to be smart.

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Feb 14, 2009

Ruby Vee, I do agree that an instructors thoughts should be taken seriously, but I stand strong on my opinion that it is not their place to tell a student they aren't nursing material.

So if one's teachers don't know who is cutting it who does? The Blessed Flying Spaghetti Monster, may you be Touched by His Noodly Appendage?

Seriously, not everyone is cut out to do everything. And you don't get to be a nurse because it's your dream. Hell, I wanna be a ballerina, but I'm 50 years too old and 80 pounds too fat.

ZanatuBelmont · Feb 14, 2009

RE: Fat nurses

Interesting observation, where I live most nurses are at least 30Ibs overweight, and two or three on every shift is almost always at least 50Ibs overweight, or obese for you technical goobers (hee hee).

Then again, I do live in one of the top fattest states: Texas.

Just thought I'd throw that out there. Since I'm overweight too, I've had to consider how I would approach a patient that needs weight-reduction teaching. Right now I have it in my head to laugh at myself, and explain I know it's hard (because of my own obvious struggles), but explain, "this is what the doctor recommends..."

chevyv, BSN, RN · Feb 15, 2009

So if one's teachers don't know who is cutting it who does? The Blessed Flying Spaghetti Monster, may you be Touched by His Noodly Appendage?
Seriously, not everyone is cut out to do everything. And you don't get to be a nurse because it's your dream. Hell, I wanna be a ballerina, but I'm 50 years too old and 80 pounds too fat.

I agree, but I still can't agree that a nursing instructor should tell a student they are not nursing material. Honestly, I have a nursing instructor that sees me 8 days out of the semester. She also has 8 students. With 2 pts each, how can the instructor be so sure that a student is not nursing material. I wonder if they can say it, will they put those words down on paper? I want to see an instructor write "Student is not nursing material" down on paper and turn that over to the student and put that in their school file.

As far as wanting to be a ballerina, bet a teacher would tell you to lose your weight and don't expect to be a prima ballerina, but you certainly can learn.

I do think that if more than 1 clinical instructor is in agreement that a student needs remediation, I would be more inclined to be ok with this thread. But, one instructor can just not like you. I would hope that would never happen, but I've seen it at least once. Not everyone is good with putting personality issues to the side, instructors included. If this instructor is basing her opinion on weight, then obviously she cannot put her own issues aside. I would venture that this can happen at other times as well.

FLmomof5 · Feb 15, 2009

My mother retired from nursing after 35 yrs. She was 5'4" and 225 lbs. She had a bad thyroid and it was removed so she was on synthroid. She really struggled with her weight which is why she got a degree in hospital admin. Also, while still a floor nurse, she sat on the chairs provided in the nursing station. They were bar stools. She fell and tore her rotator cuff. Not good.

My sis was 5'1" and 150 lbs when she started. She contracted hepatitis from a needle stick. She nearly died and dropped to 95 lbs! Although she never gained that weight back, she is currently gaining a little at a time because she is perimenopausal and had hypothyroidism.

30 or 50 lbs overweight is only obese on the lower height levels. (At 150, my sis was obese. I weighed the same in college but I am 5'4" and this would not have qualified as obese.)

Do not misunderstand me. I do understand what it is like to struggle with weight. For 6 yrs I was overweight. I am blessed because I am currently 115 lbs....which is not bad for a mom of 5!

BTW, I think the fattest states are LA, AL and MS!

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Feb 15, 2009

No. In fact, I think that type of behavior is bullying. It is the same kind of behavior that we call "nurse-eating" after the victim passes NCLEX, and IMO, borders on abuse.

I know quite a few nurses whose instructors told them things like that, usually in front of the entire class, usually with the implicit purpose of keeping the class in a state of anxiety and fear by scapegoating one student and "weeding out." Their statement would begin the process of isolating the student, which would snowball into cutting the student off from important information that other students share because the other students, not wanting to draw the instructor's ire, rapidly dissociate themselves from that scapegoated student.

The fact that these instructors are frequently proven wrong does nothing to change their behavior. But it sure does leave a lasting impression on those who become nurses despite having been treated badly by the instructor. In fact, I'd have to say that if I learned anything at all in Med-surg, it was not from my clinical instructor, who only taught me to avoid getting into her sights.

And another thing:

The targeting of overweight people is so ingrained in the American culture, it's being justified throughout this thread. It's as if they are saying that the instructor's bullying tactics are OK because the student is, after all, grossly overweight, and probably cannot make it through clinicals.

Oh really.

Well, I'd rather have a slow, overweight nurse any day than a thin, quick, dyslexic one who gets the numbers on the med dose backwards.

We all need to remember that there are plenty of places that a nurse can work where weight is not a problem. We have blind, deaf, dyslexic, amputee, and wheelchair-bound nurses, so who cares if this student is obese or even if she's slow in clinicals? I don't know many students who are really fast or who know what they're doing anyway. It's a little like the stranger who points at a 4-year-old and says, "That child's going to wind up in jail some day." Often, those predictions are not based on evidence, they are based on prejudice.

If a student hasn't got what it takes, don't worry, you can pretty much bet your bottom dollar that the NCLEX will do the weeding. If a student cannot pass and regrets spending the money on a degree that is unusable, they're only a few classes away from redirecting their focus. It's not like someone's going to take all those credits back if the student flunks NCLEX.

hypocaffeinemia, BSN, RN · Feb 15, 2009

Just for the record, 450 pounds is several orders of magnitude away from "being overweight", unless, if my BMI calculation is correct, you're 8 foot 7 inches, minimum, in which case then perhaps you're merely just overweight.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Feb 15, 2009

and another thing:
the targeting of overweight people is so ingrained in the american culture, it's being justified throughout this thread. it's as if they are saying that the instructor's bullying tactics are ok because the student is, after all, grossly overweight, and probably cannot make it through clinicals.
oh really.
well, i'd rather have a slow, overweight nurse any day than a thin, quick, dyslexic one who gets the numbers on the med dose backwards.
we all need to remember that there are plenty of places that a nurse can work where weight is not a problem. we have blind, deaf, dyslexic, amputee, and wheelchair-bound nurses, so who cares if this student is obese or even if she's slow in clinicals? i don't know many really students who are really fast or who know what they're doing anyway. it's a little like the stranger who points at a 4-year-old and says, "that child's going to wind up in jail some day." often, those predictions are not based on evidence, they are based on prejudice.

i agree about the targeting of overweight people. it's disappointing that even on a board such as this where people are often so self-righteous about being supportive of one another obesity is still seen as a matter for ridicule.