School Shootings

OldDude · Feb 21, 2018

I guess it's because I think this is bigger than just schools. Mass shootings can and have happened anywhere. Concerts, nightclubs and workplaces.
With your rationale of "the bad guys will still get the guns", can't you say the same thing for the location of the shootings? Instead of coming to your school, will the shooter go to the community park or mall instead to hurt his/her intended victims? Will they just wait till the end of the day and shoot people in the parking lot? Will they go to a movie theater.. oh wait, they have done that one already.
Addressing the gun/firearm I think is the only way to work on the problem as a whole. Let them go through the process of trying to get the weapons illegally, I can't imagine that it is easier given that most of our recent mass shooters have obtained their stock piles legally.
It is great that your district is being proactive and having retired police officers at the door this year, but will they come back next year, or are they just to pacify the emotional masses now? And do they really work? The Florida school had an SRO and the young man still went in, knowing there was a good guy with a gun there.

True...shootings can occur anywhere; you don't hear of a lot of mass shootings happening at police stations.

I am in complete support of someone having to demonstrate mental and physical competence, be free of criminal background, and free from chemical addictions to purchase or possess a firearm and I would vote for any referendum requiring such. I just don't think that would have any real effect on firearm availability to bad guys. I think the guns are here to stay.

SRO on campus in Florida. He was "elsewhere on the 45 acre campus," at the time of the shooting. If this kid was had the premeditated wherewithal to pull the fire alarm I have an idea he knew enough about the SRO to not engage him.

WineRN · Feb 21, 2018

I am in complete support of someone having to demonstrate mental and physical competence, be free of criminal background, and free from chemical addictions to purchase or possess a firearm and I would vote for any referendum requiring such. I just don't think that would have any real effect on firearm availability to bad guys. I think the guns are here to stay.

The only place we differ is where I bolded.

But I completely respect your opinion. I think Illinois/Chicago is the everyone's favorite example on how even some of the heftiest gun laws don't prevent the bad guys from getting guns. I understand that Where there is a will there is a way, I just want to make that way reflect common sense.

I feel like I said it somewhere on here before, but I feel that the root of this all is in the decline of mental and public health care. We have too many people who fall through the cracks and don't receive the care they need.

But that solution isn't the fast solution everyone is looking for today.

OldDude · Feb 21, 2018

The only place we differ is where I bolded.
But I completely respect your opinion. I think Illinois/Chicago is the everyone's favorite example on how even some of the heftiest gun laws don't prevent the bad guys from getting guns. I understand that Where there is a will there is a way, I just want to make that way reflect common sense.
I feel like I said it somewhere on here before, but I feel that the root of this all is in the decline of mental and public health care. We have too many people who fall through the cracks and don't receive the care they need.
But that solution isn't the fast solution everyone is looking for today.

Yes...I think the decline and lack of mental healthcare options is likely the greatest contribution to the problem. Sadly, I think it'll take at least as long to reverse the trend -IF- the lawmakers can ever agree.

OldDude · Feb 23, 2018

So much for the argument..."there was an armed police officer on campus at the time of the shooting and it didn't make a difference." I told you guys something didn't make sense about this and now we know why.

akulahawkRN, ADN, RN, EMT-P · Feb 23, 2018

So much for the argument..."there was an armed police officer on campus at the time of the shooting and it didn't make a difference." I told you guys something didn't make sense about this and now we know why.

For those of you wondering why this statement was made, it's because the SRO didn't even attempt to engage the shooter. The SRO was suspended and has resigned.

Here's something I haven't seen much of since the 14th - Police Officers have no requirement to protect us as individuals. Most departments that have an active shooter policy require that solo officers arriving on scene wait for a second officer to arrive before the team up and go hunting for the active shooter.

Standard police doctrine before Columbine was to surround the active shooter and wait it out. Everyone inside that perimeter was effectively written off. If police can't get into an area to hunt down a shooter, they cordon off an area to contain the shooter and hope that a police sniper can get a shot, the shooter surrenders, runs out of ammo, or commits suicide. That also means people inside the perimeter are still effectively written off if it means keeping the shooter from escaping.

The SRO could very well have been following policy for posting up and waiting for another officer to arrive to go hunting as a team. That's actually much safer than hunting as a solo officer. By likely following policy, that SRO is now out of a job and will be publicly vilified for "not doing anything."

OyWithThePoodles, RN · Feb 23, 2018

For those of you wondering why this statement was made, it's because the SRO didn't even attempt to engage the shooter. The SRO was suspended and has resigned.
Here's something I haven't seen much of since the 14th - Police Officers have no requirement to protect us as individuals. Most departments that have an active shooter policy require that solo officers arriving on scene wait for a second officer to arrive before the team up and go hunting for the active shooter.
Standard police doctrine before Columbine was to surround the active shooter and wait it out. Everyone inside that perimeter was effectively written off. If police can't get into an area to hunt down a shooter, they cordon off an area to contain the shooter and hope that a police sniper can get a shot, the shooter surrenders, runs out of ammo, or commits suicide. That also means people inside the perimeter are still effectively written off if it means keeping the shooter from escaping.
The SRO could very well have been following policy for posting up and waiting for another officer to arrive to go hunting as a team. That's actually much safer than hunting as a solo officer. By likely following policy, that SRO is now out of a job and will be publicly vilified for "not doing anything."

These were my thoughts "maybe he was waiting for back up", but why? There's babies dying in there! I recall hearing on one new channel that since Sandy Hook (maybe) the policy has changed and that the first one that arrives is to do what they can to disarm the shooter. I would search for it, but I'm nervous searching things about school shootings on my work computer...at school.

NutmeggeRN, BSN · Feb 23, 2018

The SRO could very well have been following policy for posting up and waiting for another officer to arrive to go hunting as a team. That's actually much safer than hunting as a solo officer. By likely following policy, that SRO is now out of a job and will be publicly vilified for "not doing anything."

Based on what his boss said and the fact that he was suspended and then resigned, I think not.

OldDude · Feb 23, 2018

For those of you wondering why this statement was made, it's because the SRO didn't even attempt to engage the shooter. The SRO was suspended and has resigned...
The SRO could very well have been following policy for posting up and waiting for another officer to arrive to go hunting as a team. That's actually much safer than hunting as a solo officer. By likely following policy, that SRO is now out of a job and will be publicly vilified for "not doing anything."

He decided to resign instead of being suspended without pay, which is what Sheriff Israel had done after the incident.

Also, yes I agree the SRO could very well have followed policy...but he didn't!! And yes, he will be publicly vilified as evidenced by police now having to protect him from the public. I can't imagine how high emotions are running there after parents realized the person being paid to protect the kids didn't show up when they needed him. He'll likely move to another county or state.

These are quotes from the Sheriff...

"He didn't go in."

"We go in and address the target and that's what should have been done."

"I'm sick to my stomach. There are no words."

OldDude · Feb 23, 2018

These were my thoughts "maybe he was waiting for back up", but why? There's babies dying in there! I recall hearing on one new channel that since Sandy Hook (maybe) the policy has changed and that the first one that arrives is to do what they can to disarm the shooter. I would search for it, but I'm nervous searching things about school shootings on my work computer...at school.

If you use the "waiting for backup before you engage" logic you don't need to have an officer on campus at all.

OhioBPH · Feb 23, 2018

"non-credible" threats in both middle schools in my district today.

You guys, I'm so fed up with this garbage. Columbine happened when I was in like 6th grade, this has been most of my life. I'm so so so tired, the world just keeps getting worse. What will it by like for my kid in a few years when he is in middle school?? And nothing gets done because all we get is thought and prayers, when we need change and action.

MrNurse(x2), ADN · Feb 23, 2018

"non-credible" threats in both middle schools in my district today.
You guys, I'm so fed up with this garbage. Columbine happened when I was in like 6th grade, this has been most of my life. I'm so so so tired, the world just keeps getting worse. What will it by like for my kid in a few years when he is in middle school?? And nothing gets done because all we get is thought and prayers, when we need change and action.

A Sheriff in Ohio is doing something. He is offering courses to educate teachers to carry. Local businesses are offering lodging and food free of charge, as well as the course. First starts next week, so this was implemented pre-Florida. There are full courses for the next few months. The narrative that teachers would not want to be armed is just that.

OldDude · Feb 23, 2018

"non-credible" threats in both middle schools in my district today.
You guys, I'm so fed up with this garbage. Columbine happened when I was in like 6th grade, this has been most of my life. I'm so so so tired, the world just keeps getting worse. What will it by like for my kid in a few years when he is in middle school?? And nothing gets done because all we get is thought and prayers, when we need change and action.

Well, if it can happen in my district, it can happen anywhere. My school district is usually on the tail end of the slinky regarding decisions of change but I applaud our school board for a quick, sure, decision to do just that Ohio...change and action. Since Wednesday, each campus has a uniformed police officer assigned for the entire school day and will continue indefinitely; this in addition to the 2 SROs already assigned to the district. The added benefit I've already witnessed is a stark "attitude" adjustment from the visiting "public," if you know what I mean...Yes, someone has to pay for it but I think it's a very wise investment.

I'm hoping district "peer pressure" will take hold and others follow suit.