School Shootings

OldDude · Mar 21, 2018

Her point is relevant... to many of us. While I disagree with some of yours., I have no need to to call you irrelevant. that is just not professional or productful.

The disagreement about guns abounds from horizon to horizon. When I say what someone's opinion is about guns is irrelevant, including my opinion, I'm trying to drive home that the issue is completely separate from protecting our children in school today, and tomorrow, and next week. Regardless of what ever faction wants to accomplish with their gun agenda the kids need to be protected. What that SRO did yesterday prevented a massacre. There are children alive today because of him. That's my point.

Meanwhile the gun debate ping pong grinds on...

kidzcare · Mar 21, 2018

Her point is relevant... to many of us. While I disagree with some of yours., I have no need to to call you irrelevant. that is just not professional or productful.

Thank you, it is relevant because it debunks a rallying cry from gun enthusiasts that having armed guards will keep a gunman from shooting at a school.

Not to mention that it does nothing to address other mass shootings. Armed guards could not have stopped the Vegas shooter, did not stop the Pulse shooter... the list goes on and on. The only way to stop maniacs from mowing down dozens of people in a matter of minutes is to create and enforce laws that keep them from obtaining rapid-fire, bullet-filled killing machines and create and enforce severe penalties for being in possession of a firearm illegally. But there's a group who are intent on turning a blind eye to statistics and will only let those killing machines be pried from their "cold dead hands" because they're not creative enough to find another way to compensate.

OldDude · Mar 21, 2018

Thank you, it is relevant because it debunks a rallying cry from gun enthusiasts that having armed guards will keep a gunman from shooting at a school.
Not to mention that it does nothing to address other mass shootings. Armed guards could not have stopped the Vegas shooter, did not stop the Pulse shooter... the list goes on and on. The only way to stop maniacs from mowing down dozens of people in a matter of minutes is to create and enforce laws that keep them from obtaining rapid-fire, bullet-filled killing machines and create and enforce severe penalties for being in possession of a firearm illegally. But there's a group who are intent on turning a blind eye to statistics and will only let those killing machines be pried from their "cold dead hands" because they're not creative enough to find another way to compensate.

OK, I don't disagree with that. Now, for the present, please just answer this question.

Do you want an armed officer in your kid's school or do you NOT want an armed officer in your kid's school?

kidzcare · Mar 21, 2018

Do you want an armed officer in your kid's school or do you NOT want an armed officer in your kid's school?

Not really. My kids' schools are huge. And the high school they will attend is massive. An armed officer (or 6) has a slim chance of being in the general vicinity of the random place a shooter could enter. But, assuming that an armed officer was able to confront a shooter in the hallway... can you imagine the pandemonium in a school hallway with an active shooter, popping off 100-200 shots per minute (I have based this number on the 20 shots I heard during the Parkland video which was 6 seconds long) indiscriminately? Teenagers running and screaming, some falling and being trampled, some laying dead on the ground for their classmates to run around? Police officers have an average hit rate of 18% when exchanging gunfire with a suspect (this statistic is easy to google so I won't provide a link, anyone who wants to confirm it can find it literally in seconds). Now we will expect a SRO to have a better hit rate when they are not "in the field" on a regular basis and are surrounded by running, screaming children and faced with a shooter who (most likely) has a much more powerful weapon and clearly no regard for human life?

A better solution? Metal detectors and double doors to enter at every entrance. If the metal detector goes off, the person needs to be cleared before they can enter the building. Costly, but not nearly as costly as hiring a slew of guards for every school.

Now the shooting in Maryland yesterday is different than many other shootings. It doesn't fit the criteria for mass shooting. (Sidebar- Wow. God bless the USA- the only developed nation that has sat down and designed specific criteria for something to be called a mass shooting. 'Merica) Not all the details are out, but from what I have read so far, it seems that this child had specific targets in mind and a handgun. Facing that kind of shooter is much different that facing one who is pumping bullets out of a gun as fast as possible (I imagine, I have never actually had to face a gunman and hope that I continue that streak).

WineRN · Mar 21, 2018

Not to mention that it does nothing to address other mass shootings. Armed guards could not have stopped the Vegas shooter, did not stop the Pulse shooter..

Do you want an armed officer in your kid's school or do you NOT want an armed officer in your kid's school?

I think you guys are on two different pages of the same book.

If we are ONLY talking about schools, I absolutely want an armed SRO. It may not be a preventive measure, but I feel like it ranks as important as my AED. I want it here if it's needed.

If we look into the bigger picture, the availability and minimal regulation of firearms is a problem. We have no problem making laws restricting fertilizers and other chemicals when bomb threats were more frequent, restricting certain medications during this opioid epidemic, and even locking up laundry pods to keep teens safe. But pushing for consistency across the board for things like training before being able to buy a gun, mandatory and national set standards for background checks, and so on is just crazy talk to our politicians.

And then we can go into the even BIGGER picture of how this all really stems from the home.

But because we are looking at two different pages and obviously all of our own personal beliefs are coming through, I feel like we really are just ping ponging back and forth.

OldDude · Mar 21, 2018

I think you guys are on two different pages of the same book.
If we are ONLY talking about schools, I absolutely want an armed SRO. It may not be a preventive measure, but I feel like it ranks as important as my AED. I want it here if it's needed.
If we look into the bigger picture, the availability and minimal regulation of firearms is a problem. We have no problem making laws restricting fertilizers and other chemicals when bomb threats were more frequent, restricting certain medications during this opioid epidemic, and even locking up laundry pods to keep teens safe. But pushing for consistency across the board for things like training before being able to buy a gun, mandatory and national set standards for background checks, and so on is just crazy talk to our politicians.
And then we can go into the even BIGGER picture of how this all really stems from the home.
But because we are looking at two different pages and obviously all of our own personal beliefs are coming through, I feel like we really are just ping ponging back and forth.

I agree...I DO want to say I am breathing a little easier today. My sister in law and her two little girls live in Austin and the anxiety of the random bombings was starting to get to her. Thank God that maniac is done and thank God for such a rapid and intense response from the collective agencies. I know the entire city is breathing a collective sigh of relief.

OldDude · Mar 21, 2018

A better solution? Metal detectors and double doors to enter at every entrance. If the metal detector goes off, the person needs to be cleared before they can enter the building. Costly, but not nearly as costly as hiring a slew of guards for every school.

I would love to see metal detectors at every school.

NutmeggeRN, BSN · Mar 21, 2018

OK, I don't disagree with that. Now, for the present, please just answer this question.
Do you want an armed officer in your kid's school or do you NOT want an armed officer in your kid's school?

I have one and am very thankful. He does regular training, and wears a uniform.

He is not likely to be considered a suspect in the event out of town officers respond to a shooting in my building.

Which is exactly what will happen as our force is just not that big and we really heavily on a regional SWAT team. A teacher, not known to an LEO from another town, may well get killed by virtue of having a gun in their possession.

I see huge obstacles in ensuring that civilians (teachers etc) getting and maintaining the training they need. I see a huge time constraint on folks who are already over worked and under paid. Who will pay for all of that? The budget is always being cut. There may be those chose to do that. Won't be me. And it had not best be a federal mandate from the White House. Because federal mandates tend to be woefully underfunded. But i digress.

OldDude · Mar 21, 2018

I have one and am very thankful. He does regular training, and wears a uniform.
He is not likely to be considered a suspect in the event out of town officers respond to a shooting in my building.
Which is exactly what will happen as our force is just not that big and we really heavily on a regional SWAT team. A teacher, not known to an LEO from another town, may well get killed by virtue of having a gun in their possession.
I see huge obstacles in ensuring that civilians (teachers etc) getting and maintaining the training they need. I see a huge time constraint on folks who are already over worked and under paid. Who will pay for all of that? The budget is always being cut. There may be those chose to do that. Won't be me. And it had not best be a federal mandate from the White House. Because federal mandates tend to be woefully underfunded. But i digress.

All good points. My preference is a uniformed officer on campus. If a district won't provide that I would go with trained "volunteer" staff members. I would never attempt "force" someone into such a role. As a side note...it's "almost" guaranteed the shooting would be over with by the time law enforcement arrived on the scene.