School Shootings

Flare, ASN, BSN · Feb 20, 2018

Thank you for your input. I can't think of any enhancement of existing gun laws that would "help." I have no issue with background or mental illness or drug abuse checks but I'm positive that someone, having such a history, and knowing there will be such a background check, will simply circumvent that step and procure a weapon illegally so the bad guy threat is still alive and well.
And, a background check required to purchase a firearm is, in fact, a national registry; which to the angst of 2nd amendment enthusiasts, could also be a government confiscation list.

I think that's reasonable- 2nd amendment enthusiasts need to realize that the right to bear arms does not necessarily mean that it should be as easy to obtain those weapons as going doing to the Circle-K to get a pack of Juicy Fruit. When I got my firearms id card i had to get fingerprinted, had to provide references, the police did a background check and had a looooong wait before i got my id and purchaser permit back. It didn't occur to me until years later that it wasn't like this in every state. And forget about carrying a weapon here -and absolutely NO concealed concealed carry without a huge rigmarole.

OldDude · Feb 21, 2018

I think that's reasonable- 2nd amendment enthusiasts need to realize that the right to bear arms does not necessarily mean that it should be as easy to obtain those weapons as going doing to the Circle-K to get a pack of Juicy Fruit. When I got my firearms id card i had to get fingerprinted, had to provide references, the police did a background check and had a looooong wait before i got my id and purchaser permit back. It didn't occur to me until years later that it wasn't like this in every state. And forget about carrying a weapon here -and absolutely NO concealed concealed carry without a huge rigmarole.

Texas went from a "concealed carry permit" to a "license to carry" permit. This means you can openly carry, or conceal carry, a handgun in public with various restrictions like schools, etc. The rule for open carry is that the handgun has to be secured in a waist or shoulder holster. I have yet to see anyone "open carry." Anyway, the "license to carry" application includes a state and federal background check, mental health, and drug abuse questions...it doesn't address the weapons the applicant owns...seems appropriate according to the current climate of concerns; address the operator - not the weapon.

OyWithThePoodles, RN · Feb 21, 2018

I thought about this in the shower last night (ya know, where all the deep thoughts happen) for those who are pro teacher carrying: Would you be able to shoot a kid? No snark intended, I asked Mr. Poodles this same question. And you don't have to answer.

Most of these shooters have been students. Would you be able to shoot a kid? A kid that you maybe see everyday to give him his bipolar meds? A kid you have a great relationship with? Could a teacher shoot a kid that they've had in class all year? Even highly trained professionals have froze when it came time to choose if someone else should live or die. I think many school professionals would really struggle with this. Even if the kid is shooting up the school, if it was a kid I had a good relationship with, I would want to think and hope with everything in me that I could "talk some sense into them". I don't know. Just shower thoughts...

OyWithThePoodles, RN · Feb 21, 2018

Also, there's this:

9news.com | 'I was almost a school shooter'

Amethya · Feb 21, 2018

Our school system had an almost shooting, thankfully stopped before it happened. I'm just scared that my kids and my school can be next on TV.

OldDude · Feb 21, 2018

I thought about this in the shower last night (ya know, where all the deep thoughts happen) for those who are pro teacher carrying: Would you be able to shoot a kid? No snark intended, I asked Mr. Poodles this same question. And you don't have to answer.
Most of these shooters have been students. Would you be able to shoot a kid? A kid that you maybe see everyday to give him his bipolar meds? A kid you have a great relationship with? Could a teacher shoot a kid that they've had in class all year? Even highly trained professionals have froze when it came time to choose if someone else should live or die. I think many school professionals would really struggle with this. Even if the kid is shooting up the school, if it was a kid I had a good relationship with, I would want to think and hope with everything in me that I could "talk some sense into them". I don't know. Just shower thoughts...

How about if the shooter was YOUR own child? You've broached a legitimate, ugly, and terrifying, reality of protecting a school or self defense in general. I believe 99.9% of those who obtain "license to carry" permits are stable and reasonable people but I don't think many of them have taken the possibilities out this far. I have a LTC and I "think" I understand the ramifications of drawing that weapon. But sometimes, honestly, I resent having the weapon because it would be an easier thought process if it wasn't an option. But, but, GOD FORBID the situation ever occurs, I think if I have the ability to protect myself or my family instead of witnessing our death in silent acceptance I'm morally bound to take that opportunity.

So my answer to your question is..."I don't know" if I could until such time I would be faced with such a circumstance. "I do know" I would want to be prepared to intervene and I pray, if I ever did, it would be the right choice...and understand I would be changed forever after that.

OldDude · Feb 21, 2018

Also, there's this:
9news.com | 'I was almost a school shooter'

I read it...I'm sorry for his awful childhood and I'm glad he got mental help and he was able to be a responsible and successful adult. But this is an anti-gun ad...plain and simple...does nothing, other than throw another pair of lips onto the mountain of lip service out there, to address our immediate problem of how to protect our schools until a pathway to solution is established.

BrisketRN, BSN, RN · Feb 21, 2018

I think another huge issue is the media portrayal of these school shootings and mass shootings. Our media makes these murderers famous. We hear their names over and over. We see their faces plastered on our televisions, newspapers, magazines, computers, and cell phones. We learn their every move on the days before and days of their massacre. We learn the techniques they used to kill the maximum number of people. Regular citizens have no use for this information other than quenching their curiosity. Are we creating new content for future murderers? Are we putting ideas into their heads just so we can fulfill our own curiosity?

Here's a study the APA released a few years back on the media's role: https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/08/media-contagion-effect.pdf

OyWithThePoodles, RN · Feb 21, 2018

I think another huge issue is the media portrayal of these school shootings and mass shootings. Our media makes these murderers famous. We hear their names over and over. We see their faces plastered on our televisions, newspapers, magazines, computers, and cell phones. We learn their every move on the days before and days of their massacre. We learn the techniques they used to kill the maximum number of people. Regular citizens have no use for this information other than quenching their curiosity. Are we creating new content for future murderers? Are we putting ideas into their heads just so we can fulfill our own curiosity?
Here's a study the APA released a few years back on the media's role: https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/08/media-contagion-effect.pdf

I agree. The shooting that happened here in KY a few weeks ago has not gotten nearly the media attention, likely because (only) two kids died. What is that showing our troubled youth, the bigger you go, the more attention you get.

OldDude · Feb 21, 2018

Here is what I'm talking about - "doing something" until a plan can be initiated instead of hand wringing and political infighting while "doing nothing" but restocking body bags.

Our school board met Monday night and approved hiring off duty police officers to be present on every campus, every day, until school is out this year. So, when I drove up this morning there was a uniformed police officer standing at the entrance of the school and will be present on campus until school is out today and until school is out for the year. It comes with a price...and we'll never know if it "worked" and deterred someone or if it wasn't necessary. But it's a sign of being proactive instead of the current political trend of being reactive. I hope other districts will follow suit.

OyWithThePoodles, RN · Feb 21, 2018

Here is what I'm talking about - "doing something" until a plan can be initiated instead of hand wringing and political infighting while "doing nothing" but restocking body bags.
Our school board met Monday night and approved hiring off duty police officers to be present on every campus, every day, until school is out this year. So, when I drove up this morning there was a uniformed police officer standing at the entrance of the school and will be present on campus until school is out today and until school is out for the year. It comes with a price...and we'll never know if it "worked" and deterred someone or if it wasn't necessary. But it's a sign of being proactive instead of the current political trend of being reactive. I hope other districts will follow suit.

A school in my state has implemented metal detectors, no bags of any sort. Girls can carry a small purse, but it will be checked every morning. No steel toe boots. I hate that our schools are becoming like a prison. I hate that in America (for crying out loud) our kids can't feel safe in school.

WineRN · Feb 21, 2018

I like the dialogue but so far I haven't seen anything that convinces me addressing the "gun" will prevent the problem.
Thanks again.

I guess it's because I think this is bigger than just schools. Mass shootings can and have happened anywhere. Concerts, nightclubs and workplaces.

With your rationale of "the bad guys will still get the guns", can't you say the same thing for the location of the shootings? Instead of coming to your school, will the shooter go to the community park or mall instead to hurt his/her intended victims? Will they just wait till the end of the day and shoot people in the parking lot? Will they go to a movie theater.. oh wait, they have done that one already.

Addressing the gun/firearm I think is the only way to work on the problem as a whole. Let them go through the process of trying to get the weapons illegally, I can't imagine that it is easier given that most of our recent mass shooters have obtained their stock piles legally.

It is great that your district is being proactive and having retired police officers at the door this year, but will they come back next year, or are they just to pacify the emotional masses now? And do they really work? The Florida school had an SRO and the young man still went in, knowing there was a good guy with a gun there.