School Shootings

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Sad that we may need a category for this.

Another school shooting in NoCal.

Thinking of NoCalMimi and hoping she's okay.

Specializes in Psych, Peds, Education, Infection Control.

My problem with arming staff, if I'm honest, is everyone THINKS they know how they'll react in an emergency, but it takes extensive training to act on instinct. I've been in a lot of aggression codes, and as much as I train my staff (friendly neighborhood staff educator, woo!), there are times when I see newer staff shrink away or even established staff let the moment get the better of them. My people are very good, overall, in these situations, but that's because we do them all the time. I wouldn't actually have a big problem with trained security/police carrying weapons on campus, and being in strategic locations, like entrances/exits/main office. I just would want to make sure anyone who has a gun has had EXTENSIVE training in what to do under pressure, how to use it in those situations, how to avoid collateral damage, etc. I don't want the shop teacher who "was raised around guns" and uses them recreationally, but was never trained formally. The same shop teacher who was a war vet/retired police? Possibly.

I don't believe arming schools willy-nilly is the answer. I respect you a lot, OldDude, and I feel like you're suggesting such a program be rolled out reasonably, with proper training, but...I mean, a lot of schools in my area can't get a dang nurse on campus full-time or appropriately fund after-school programs. (I went back to the psych hospital because I got tired of broken promises in the schools...not that they aren't broken in the hospitals, but at least I have full-time hours and not "we cut the nurse for summer school, sorry, see you in September" when I'd been promised summer work.)

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Specializes in Pediatrics Retired.
My problem with arming staff, if I'm honest, is everyone THINKS they know how they'll react in an emergency, but it takes extensive training to act on instinct. I've been in a lot of aggression codes, and as much as I train my staff (friendly neighborhood staff educator, woo!), there are times when I see newer staff shrink away or even established staff let the moment get the better of them. My people are very good, overall, in these situations, but that's because we do them all the time. I wouldn't actually have a big problem with trained security/police carrying weapons on campus, and being in strategic locations, like entrances/exits/main office. I just would want to make sure anyone who has a gun has had EXTENSIVE training in what to do under pressure, how to use it in those situations, how to avoid collateral damage, etc. I don't want the shop teacher who "was raised around guns" and uses them recreationally, but was never trained formally. The same shop teacher who was a war vet/retired police? Possibly.

I don't believe arming schools willy-nilly is the answer. I respect you a lot, OldDude, and I feel like you're suggesting such a program be rolled out reasonably, with proper training, but...I mean, a lot of schools in my area can't get a dang nurse on campus full-time or appropriately fund after-school programs. (I went back to the psych hospital because I got tired of broken promises in the schools...not that they aren't broken in the hospitals, but at least I have full-time hours and not "we cut the nurse for summer school, sorry, see you in September" when I'd been promised summer work.)

Yea, I hear ya, and don't disagree ... I'm tired of talking and whining...like Yoda said...you do or you do not, there is no try. So we do something real and tangible or we don't. I pick do something.

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Specializes in Med-surg, school nursing..

Schools in my state have started the process of arming teachers. My problem with this is: If a crazy kid(s) didn't have access to a gun before, they for sure do now.

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Specializes in school nursing, ortho, trauma.

i had my active shooter training last week. Really well done. I have spent a lot of time with the officer talking about this with him and was glad that we were finally getting something going better that a traditional lockdown / fight with the ancient blinds. We did some classroom then an optional practical. Here's the thing - off all out staff - only a small handful of us stayed.

I was a bit surprised. I spent the weekend reading posts on social media from my co-workers saying that we need to prepare ourselves and ban this type of gun and bring on this type of legislation, and i'm not saying that i totally disagree with all of that - but here you have a chance to learn actual practical skills in the NOW to learn how to defend yourself should something happen in the place where you spend 1/3 of your day yet you choose not to participate.

I am not opposed to gun ownership. I have competitively shot handguns for most of my adult life. I have also been a very responsible owner of my guns due to this fact. I already live in a state where getting a gun is a process. It would not bother me if the rest of the country came up to my state's laws and restrictions.

As far as arming staff - i understand the spirit behind it, i really do. But again, as someone who as shot guns for years, i've got to agree with Audrey's magic's sentiment. everyone think's they will be cool and collected in that scenario until the fertilizer hits the ventilator. Questioning that? Just think about the last MEDICAL emergency you had. who helped you? Who panicked? Who Just disappeared and didn't want to know anything about it? Now give those same people a gun and more stress. Beyond that, there is the consideration of safety classes, qualifications, lessons, etc. in addition to teaching. I don't know about you, but my state has loaded on a lot of extra hooplah already (SGOs, PLCs, PGPs... and any other alphabet soup you can think of) so i don't know where gun safety quite fits.

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Specializes in Pediatrics Retired.
Schools in my state have started the process of arming teachers. My problem with this is: If a crazy kid(s) didn't have access to a gun before, they for sure do now.

So, until the root cause (social/mental health) is resolved or until new gun law conversations occur in the circles of legislative bodies that can change them, and considering a shooter could be heading to any one of our schools right now, and considering these mass shootings are over in 2 to 3 minutes, and considering police response time is about 5 minutes...what is your suggestion?

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Specializes in Pediatrics Retired.
i had my active shooter training last week. Really well done. I have spent a lot of time with the officer talking about this with him and was glad that we were finally getting something going better that a traditional lockdown / fight with the ancient blinds. We did some classroom then an optional practical. Here's the thing - off all out staff - only a small handful of us stayed.

I was a bit surprised. I spent the weekend reading posts on social media from my co-workers saying that we need to prepare ourselves and ban this type of gun and bring on this type of legislation, and i'm not saying that i totally disagree with all of that - but here you have a chance to learn actual practical skills in the NOW to learn how to defend yourself should something happen in the place where you spend 1/3 of your day yet you choose not to participate.

I am not opposed to gun ownership. I have competitively shot handguns for most of my adult life. I have also been a very responsible owner of my guns due to this fact. I already live in a state where getting a gun is a process. It would not bother me if the rest of the country came up to my state's laws and restrictions.

As far as arming staff - i understand the spirit behind it, i really do. But again, as someone who as shot guns for years, i've got to agree with Audrey's magic's sentiment. everyone think's they will be cool and collected in that scenario until the fertilizer hits the ventilator. Questioning that? Just think about the last MEDICAL emergency you had. who helped you? Who panicked? Who Just disappeared and didn't want to know anything about it? Now give those same people a gun and more stress. Beyond that, there is the consideration of safety classes, qualifications, lessons, etc. in addition to teaching. I don't know about you, but my state has loaded on a lot of extra hooplah already (SGOs, PLCs, PGPs... and any other alphabet soup you can think of) so i don't know where gun safety quite fits.

I agree with you...getting a "license to carry" doesn't morph one into using good judgement under such circumstances but what other options are there to get from "now to then" (if there ever is a "then"). My choice would be to employ multiple police officers on each campus and openly notify the public as such and I would pay the additional tax rate to fund this. I just don't think school boards will go there. I would love to be wrong about that...

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Specializes in kids.
I agree with you...getting a "license to carry" doesn't morph one into using good judgement under such circumstances but what other options are there to get from "now to then" (if there ever is a "then"). My choice would be to employ multiple police officers on each campus and openly notify the public as such and I would pay the additional tax rate to fund this. I just don't think school boards will go there. I would love to be wrong about that...

I love the idea of using retired police of military but our retirement system just reduced the # of hours a person can work and still draw on their retirement. School and public service providers all pay into the same system.

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Specializes in Pediatrics Retired.
I love the idea of using retired police of military but our retirement system just reduced the # of hours a person can work and still draw on their retirement. School and public service providers all pay into the same system.

Me too...the governor could, by executive order, simply "exempt" this type of employment from those restrictions...bam...done. Permanent change could be initiated in the next legislative session.

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Specializes in IMC, school nursing.

I beg to differ on arming certain staff. Many play video games, especially the males, and FPS games were what the military and law enforcement used to desensitize and heighten awareness. They are already halfway there. Not knowing who may have a gun is the best deterrent, as there were officers in every high school that has had a shooting.

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Specializes in Med-surg, school nursing..
So, until the root cause (social/mental health) is resolved or until new gun law conversations occur in the circles of legislative bodies that can change them, and considering a shooter could be heading to any one of our schools right now, and considering these mass shootings are over in 2 to 3 minutes, and considering police response time is about 5 minutes...what is your suggestion?

I don't have one. And I'm not saying I completely disagree with arming certain teachers. But I would want to know more about it. Is the gun kept on the teacher? Will students know which teacher has the gun? On another thread a poster said a teacher had committed suicide earlier in the year. What would've happened if that teacher had been one that was armed and they "snapped" at school. Again, I'm not saying that arming teachers is the wrong answer. I don't know what the right answer is.

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Specializes in Pediatrics Retired.
I don't have one. And I'm not saying I completely disagree with arming certain teachers. But I would want to know more about it. Is the gun kept on the teacher? Will students know which teacher has the gun? On another thread a poster said a teacher had committed suicide earlier in the year. What would've happened if that teacher had been one that was armed and they "snapped" at school. Again, I'm not saying that arming teachers is the wrong answer. I don't know what the right answer is.

Armed staff at school could only conceal carry with the weapon secured in a concealed carry holster so it would be safe and 100% accessible. There are some very functional concealed carry holsters for women that tuck right below the cleavage. Overall I think woman would be very reliable and level headed in an emergency; their blood would turn to ice water and they would all transform into the "momma bear" role and woe be to the attacker...plus women are deadly shots.

Yes, I completely agree with you regarding the "what ifs." What I DO know is if "something" isn't done, "nothing" will change.

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Specializes in IMC, school nursing.
What would've happened if that teacher had been one that was armed and they "snapped" at school. Again, I'm not saying that arming teachers is the wrong answer. I don't know what the right answer is.

We what if so often that 20 years post Columbine we have no new answers. There have been 2 school shootings in the UK and 5 in Australia, where guns are outlawed.

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