School Nurse Abandonment over Pledge?

[E Non Imus, RN]

Unfortunately, I don't know any school nurses to ask about this occurrence, but I wanted the opinion of fellow nurses. We won't know the full details of what happened until after the investigation.

From:

Atheist group says nurse refused Carlisle student over Pledge of Allegiance

"

the Wilson Middle School student was in the nurse's office with others who were ordered to stand when the Pledge [of Allegiance] was recited April 2. When the student refused to stand, she claims the nurse refused to treat her."

And:

Atheists slam school nurse for refusing to treat student who won’t stand for Pledge of Allegiance

"'Why didn't you stand for the Pledge?' the nurse reportedly asked loudly. The student said that she explained that she had the right not to participate.

'Fine! Then leave! I have the right to not service you!' the student said the nurse shouted in reply.

'The student reports that she left the nurse's office in tears and went to the administrative offices to call her mother,' Miller wrote. A secretary then led the student to an office, but at that time the same nurse appeared again, saying, ‘She isn't calling a parent until I have a long conversation with her!''"

With the recent push in the U.S. for professionals to be able to refuse service based on personal belief, what does everyone think about nurses being able to have this same right that many people want afforded to florists, pastry chefs, and pizza restaurants? Why should it be different?

What about when it comes to children? I don't care for the Pledge of Allegiance and won't be teaching it to my son, but is it enough in determining whether I'm going to provide service to have a belief in whether something is patriotic enough? Does it have to be something religious?

[mvm2]

I am sure she wanted to speak with this poor child because she knew she just put herself in a world of hurt by losing her temper with a child that did not deserve that. She probably thought opps what did i do i may be in big trouble, anywheres from losing my job and maybe getting in trouble with the BON.

[RNsRWe, ASN, RN]

What do I think? I believe there's a whole heckuva lot of this story that we don't know, and I suspect what we DO know has been mercilessly twisted.

As for the "recent push" that would allow someone to refuse service based on personal beliefs, that legislation got shot down dead right out of the gate. It's a non-issue, as this discrimination is not legal.

I would think if you chose to not say the Pledge with the "Under G'd" refererence that was added in the 50's, you could certainly say it without. I'm not sure I understand the rationale of not saying it at all, as long as you are a citizen of this country; pledging to not become a traitor seems pretty mild to me , seeing as how Treason is still on the books as a very real crime.

But that's aside from the story itself. That, I believe, isn't reported correctly or thoroughly enough to warrant much discussion.

[Fiona59]

As a Canadian, I don't understand the need to recite a pledge of allegiance to a nation every day. I was educated in the 60s & 70s and many of my instructors then were American draft dodgers who had grown up reciting this pledge.

It's words.

The nurse is wrong if this how she decides who's worthy of her care. But as a PP stated we don't know the entire story. We've heard one side of the three, the student's, the nurse's and what actually happened.

[sistrmoon, BSN, RN]

A large group of people droning the pledge in unison while gazing at the flag gives me the creeps. Any good traitor would be in the front row, with hand staunchly over heart, saying the words loudly with tears of emotion in their eyes. Saying the pledge does not mean you won't commit treason.

The nurse should be disciplined. If you're referring to the restaurant owners turning away gay customers, it's really yet to be seen if that will fly.

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

I always say, " ... with liberty and justice for all most of the time." I get a lot of hairy eyeballs for it.

[MunoRN, RN]

A good commentary on the pledge:

[Anonymous865]

If we assume the story is accurate...

The laws that I have seen proposed allow a business OWNER to decline to provide their services to someone on religious grounds. None of them would apply here since the nurse in question is not a business owner. In fact she is a public employee. A public employee should not be able to refuse services to anyone based on religious, personal, patriotic, etc. grounds.

In addition there are certain professions that are governed not only by laws but by ethical standards agreed upon by members of that professional group. There are very limited circumstances in which individuals in those professions can refuse to provide services.

In short, if the story is accurate, the nurse was wrong in not providing service to the student.

[Guest219794]

What do I think? I believe there's a whole heckuva lot of this story that we don't know, and I suspect what we DO know has been mercilessly twisted.

As for the "recent push" that would allow someone to refuse service based on personal beliefs, that legislation got shot down dead right out of the gate. It's a non-issue, as this discrimination is not legal.

I would think if you chose to not say the Pledge with the "Under G'd" refererence that was added in the 50's, you could certainly say it without. I'm not sure I understand the rationale of not saying it at all, as long as you are a citizen of this country; pledging to not become a traitor seems pretty mild to me , seeing as how Treason is still on the books as a very real crime.

But that's aside from the story itself. That, I believe, isn't reported correctly or thoroughly enough to warrant much discussion.

Sure, you could say it without "under god", or you could skip every other word, or you could exercise your constitutional right to skip the whole thing, as this citizen did.

As a child, I refused to say the pledge. My primary objection was not to "under god", though I believed then, and still do, that government and religion are a bad mix. My objection had more to do with the mindless recitation of a pledge not even understood by those saying it. In fact, many kids say it wrong, wondering why this country is invisible.

I also objected to the idea that in this great country, I could be required to say anything at all. Oddly, even as a child, I was a huge fan of of one of the thing that makes this a great country: The constitution.

As far as this story being Mercilessly Twisted: Probably not. The Christian Post is very much in favor of The Pledge, and any interjection of Christianity into public schools. Their reporting on it is here. It shares the same basic facts, so the originally cited articles may well be on target.

[E Non Imus, RN]

As far as this story being Mercilessly Twisted: Probably not. The Christian Post is very much in favor of The Pledge, and any interjection of Christianity into public schools. Their reporting on it is here. It shares the same basic facts, so the originally cited articles may well be on target.

I was trying to keep an open mind until the school board completed their investigation. The reports I read came from sources that would benefit from a slant to the story. But if the Christian Post is saying it, too... well, we might as well start having the taxpayers in that county open their wallets. First, to the parents of the 8th grader. Then, to the nurse who will inevitably sue after she is fired.

[RNsRWe, ASN, RN]

Sure, you could say it without "under god", or you could skip every other word, or you could exercise your constitutional right to skip the whole thing, as this citizen did.

As a child, I refused to say the pledge. My primary objection was not to "under god", though I believed then, and still do, that government and religion are a bad mix. My objection had more to do with the mindless recitation of a pledge not even understood by those saying it. In fact, many kids say it wrong, wondering why this country is invisible.

I also objected to the idea that in this great country, I could be required to say anything at all. Oddly, even as a child, I was a huge fan of of one of the thing that makes this a great country: The constitution.

As far as this story being Mercilessly Twisted: Probably not. The Christian Post is very much in favor of The Pledge, and any interjection of Christianity into public schools. Their reporting on it is here. It shares the same basic facts, so the originally cited articles may well be on target.

Not really interested much in debating whether or not the Pledge of Allegiance should be said in school; as I said it's really another topic. THIS topic is whether the nurse was out of line and should be disciplined accordingly, or within her rights.

FWIW, the very fact that The Christian Post is reporting on it makes me think the story is biased from the get-go.

IF what happened really happened as it was spelled out here, the nurse can expect a quick and painful end to her financial stability, and deservedly so. If it ISN'T....hopefully we'll find out what REALLY happened.

I think I'll reserve my judgement on her until the details are a bit more clear is all.

[mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN]

very slippery slope. We have a problem here where PUBLIC (remember separation of church and state) officials are refusing to perform LEGAL marriages of gay couples here in NC. They should immediately be taken out of office.

My PCP was educated at a Catholic University and could not remove an IUD b/c they did not train them in that. I respect that, but to not treat a child for the pledge-that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. What if the child was having an anaphalactic reaction? Is she going to let the kid die? She should lose her license.