I've been nursing for about 4.5 years on a 30 bed Neuro unit. I love my job (for the most part) and feel pretty confident. I feel comfortable approaching most of the doctors and feel I have a good rapport with most of them, except one. This doc is known for being extremely nasty. This MD has been known to "find your weakness and go for the jugular" as some other nurses have put it. I respect the MD for their work. They are a very good and talented surgeon, but they will eat you up. This MD has a notorious rep among the nurses and most nurses dread dealing with them.
For the most part, I've not had any problems with this MD and they almost seemed to respect me. There was a particular incident earlier this year with this doc that has left me terrified of them. The MD ordered an MRI of the L-spine, which another nurse took as a telephone order (I was in charge that day). The order did not say STAT or today, it just said MRI L-spine. The patient was going to have to have it in an open MRI, so they weren't able to get to the patient until the next day, which I thought was fine since it was already 4pm in the afternoon and the order was not STAT or timed. Well, that MD called to the floor later and asked if the patient had the MRI. I said no, that's when the crap hit the fan. This MD is very passive-aggressive and has a way of making you feel 2 inches tall. The MD basically asked me why this MRI wasn't done STAT. I explained another nurse took the order and it was not ordered STAT. I told the MD I certainly would have made sure the MRI was done ASAP if the order was STAT. Then the MD basically went on and on in their passive-aggressive tone about how it should have been done asap, the pt could have a hematoma, am I willing to take responsibility if he's paralyzed, and on and on. After that, the phone went silent and they said 'thank you' in a smart *** way and hung up. I'm left speechless.
Anyhow, ever since this incident I am really terrified of this MD. I feel that I was slowly building some respect with them, and now they don't trust me and view me in a negative light. Everyone tells me to let it go, but I can't. When I see that docs name on the board, my heart sinks because I dread facing them. Even if I dot every single I and cross every T, they will find something wrong, give you a look that makes you want to crawl under the desk, and start lecturing you in a very demeaning tone. I can deal with docs yelling and acting like babies, but this doc just attacks you on a more personal level. Apparently this doc has been known to get nurses fired at another hospital. This MD has the 'gift' of making you feel worthless and stupid. I charge a lot and I get panic attacks knowing I will have to deal with this MD. I'm not sure how can I get over this fear of this MD. I know they are just a person, but I feel so disrespected around them. Sorry, needed to vent... Thanks for listening!!
I worked the ER for 18 years. I never let doctor's bully me or talk to me like I was subservient! I did my job and did it well. I had no problems going over a doctor's head and reporting him. I had one gyn that refused to come to the ER to evaluate someone - I wrote in my notes exactly what he said. When he read it (hours later) he was furious with me and demanded that I change my note. I refused. A patient happen to hear this doctor yelling at me and came to my rescue (sad to say that a pt had to do that). The pt was an attorney and said he would cover me if that doc tried anything. I just stand my ground!! I have a doc now that likes to over order antibiotics for someone without seeing them. I now refuse to take verbal orders from her for antibiotics. It's my license and I'll protect it however I have to!!
This MD has the 'gift' of making you feel worthless and stupid.
The doc, obviously, is a chump. However, only YOU can make you feel worthless and stupid, regardless of the actions of somebody else (be it a spouse, sibling, friend, parent, or... MD). You need to practice your boundaries and not letting your feelings about yourself be dictated by other people.
Evaluate whether you did anything wrong (in this case, it sounds like you didn't), make appropriate amends, and then
Specializes in Cardiac care/Ortho/LTC/Education/Psych.
It is everywhere that you have or will have this issue and I would like to have a coffee with some nurse who have never experienced this behavior from their peers or worse from the doctor. I can say that my personal stand point is if they start to behave like toddlers I look at them and I see them in toddlers attire dancing around and waving their hands. Honest to God it is so hard to keep not to smile and be still and listen some sounds coming from the toddler who is dancing around. When I oversight something I am very honest and I apology stating why it was oversight . When I know I did everything in my power to help it and make it better and still patient is dying or is close to it then I do not buckle to anyone. Once my patient got worse on change of shift and I was calling doctor and he did not respond to me for 45 minutes meanwhile my patient went from 2 liters O2 to close to be intubated and I was changing settings and working with respiratory minute after minute and recording what I am doing , calling supervisor , peers and everyone who could help me manage patient to not hit the ditch of vent. Finally , he calls me back and say "what did you do to my patient???!!" like I was incompetent jerk killing poor woman. So I said let me tell you exactly what I did and I started to recite him everything I did to the patient and how many time I paged doc and how many time I called him until I called his home phone number which is usually off our limits but I DID IT !!! to get him in . And , then I said that is what I did , what did you do ???
Ohhh , nice silence for a minute and then answer " I am coming in" - Thank you , sir, I appreciate your understanding of situation. I am waiting for you . DONE!!!
It is always hard but supporting bully behavior or being afraid of it will not get you anywhere. Being professional and know your boundaries and theirs will give you respect from the same one. Nurses are soldiers on every front:))):redpinkhe
Sorry this happened to you. It seems like you may need some time off from this abusive person. Would it be possible for you to ask your NM to assign this particular MD's patients to other nurses for the time being? In the mean time, perhaps taking a short course in assertiveness training may make you feel empowered to stand your ground; not only with this particular MD, but with other difficult people in this world. Good luck...
I had a "run in" with a female (surgeon)and male (plastics) doc team. They came onto my floor to see one of my patients (without telling me - a CNA grabbed me to inform me). They started sawing on my pt's leg (MVA) with no medication given beforehand (that's another story about not being liable for pre-medicating a patient and how to get around that) My pt had just been taken off his PCA the day before and was yelling in pain when i showed up to ask just what the @$% they were doing. I had a rapport with this paitent since he had been there a long time and in the heat of the moment of yelling i told him to shutup. ( He had told me i could say that but of course to actually say it in front of doctors is another story). soooooo I'm yelling about them sawing on him without pain killer and the male MD stays calm and allows me to go get the pt some IV pain killer. the female wrote me up but my manager had my back on it since this wasn't my usual personality and i told her what had happened. The female MD stomped off to the vaters and when i talked to the male MD who stayed to chart he said she would "get over it"..apparently not since she wrote me up but jesus - im a pt advocate first. Seroiously HOW would THEY feel if i barged into the OR and started wiping their pts preped ass????
Nothing disciplinary came of it so even tho i was tearful, shaking and the ward clerk offered me some water when it was all over...I stood up for myself and my pt.
I have learned to stand up tall - look them in the eye or stay calm on the phone and keep repeating the facts =" the order wasn't marked STAT. Did you order it stat? was it read back to you stat?" (and of course check with the person who took the verbal) but in your case when Female MD called you in a huff - I would have said well it WASN'T marked STAT - would you like it stat now? would you like the person fired who took the call? and to answer her dumb question I would have said "Of course NOT! would you?" ( i love to be facetious sometimes...it's like DUH, some one screwed up (maybe you?) and lets move forward since you are wasting my and your precious time.) I have learned to just say "What would you like done now, doctor?" and just keep repeating that...lol...when faced with a wall they will back down.
remember....doctors are trained to be Gods and they can smell fear so don't show any. Actually i have worked with wonderful doctors so don't let the "dysfunctional/anger management needed"ones get to you or paralyze your abilities.
i agree. sometimes you have to stop and think....maybe they have never been taught how to PLAY NICE in the sandbox so teaching/reporting unacceptable behavior is ok.
We had one doctor who was very untactful = like coming into the room to see the patient and just saying, "Your labs are a mess and you are dying." lol seriously. He was always being written up for untactfulness.
I am an RN since 1987, and it is true, like many other RNs we could all be doctors if we wanted to be - but who wants to? Why be a doctor when you can be a nurse?
However, I have noticed lately that there are a few - not all - young MDs (male and/or female) who have issues with RNs. Maybe because RNs spend more time with their patients and have a much better rapport, or maybe because they are nervous that an RN in his/her 40s has much more experience than an MD in his/her late 20s... and we earn more money?
Recently, I am chastised by an MD who may or may not be all of 15 years old (a whole week after the event that I had already forgotten) because I took my mask off in a R/O TB pt's room... I swallowed my pride and apologized - it was a "misunderstanding". But the pt never had TB - he knew it, I knew it - everyone knew it except her. The pt was non-compliant because of the unnecessary negative airflow and masks... I have worked in a TB sanatorium - I know what TB looks like. I actually reinforced to the pt and relatives her decision to initiate and continue airborne precautions... Doh!
Anyway, TB was ruled out (of course) and the pt later thanked me for being his advocate.
As for the MD, she has lost all credibility in his eyes, and mine.
I have to say that usually, all the MDs are respectful and I am respectful in turn.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Keep this in mind whenever dealing with a physician. While the rest of use where chasing girls (or boys as the case may be), hanging out with friends, having part time jobs and all that other stuff that taught us how to get along in the world and social skills, physicians had their heads buried in science books. Many of them simply missed out on the type of education the rest of us take for granted.
Please do not waste time pondering this, the MD is the one in the wrong. Life must go on. Like someone else stated, Be concise, factual, sweet and to the point when dealing with this MD.:hrnsmlys:
These threads hold wonderful ideas, similar and dissimilar. None two have to agree, in fact, I find in most cases there seems to run threads to disagree, or at least to play the Devil's Advocate. I find the latter the most fun. And, who in nursing doesn't want to have fun?
My comments re NOT being scared of anyone, including MDs, were made by an older nurse, me. Having started my nursing career at 41 (which, by the way, is not all that uncommon within the past few years), I was on a mission to seek out challenges (to keep my interest peaked) and to enjoy myself (to keep my sanity peaked) and my patients (afterall, I am their Advocate) AND my peers (we're all in this together, right?) in the process. My mission was accomplished in most part. Having been raised a Navy brat, I was given the opporunities to meet many many different people in all kinds of environments. I was blessed with not ever meeting a stranger. What good is life if there isn't some kind of interaction between human beings? Doctors are no different. They're people and most of all they're humans. I feel there's a need in humans to have and to at least TRY to interact with one another.
I knew I was destined (out of a financial need for my family, if nothing else more esquisite) to be a nurse for a lot
of years. THEREFORE, I was determined to like it. I feel that if I'm going to be passing someone in the hallway
most every day or if I'm going to be required to communicate with a person most every day, then those times
are going to be pleasant and civil. Simple hellos can really do the trick. Whether it's returned or not is not the
goal. The goal is ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that another human being has spoken to me, i.e. the MD. THAT is what
you're after. You can either make it your goal or you can stay stiff and formal(and pleasant)......it's your choice. Everyone is entitled to their own choice. I made mine and as far as I can recall, even overbearing, scared female doctors would acknowledge me. For goodness sake, don't make such a big deal out of someone's irritating mood or curt answers, carry on as the pleasant and smiling person that YOU are.........afterall, 12 hours
and to answer her dumb question I would have said "Of course NOT! would you?" ( i love to be facetious sometimes...it's like DUH, some one screwed up (maybe you?) and lets move forward since you are wasting my and your precious time.) I have learned to just say "What would you like done now, doctor?" and just keep repeating that...lol...when faced with a wall they will back down.
nanadeb
5 Posts
I worked the ER for 18 years. I never let doctor's bully me or talk to me like I was subservient! I did my job and did it well. I had no problems going over a doctor's head and reporting him. I had one gyn that refused to come to the ER to evaluate someone - I wrote in my notes exactly what he said. When he read it (hours later) he was furious with me and demanded that I change my note. I refused. A patient happen to hear this doctor yelling at me and came to my rescue (sad to say that a pt had to do that). The pt was an attorney and said he would cover me if that doc tried anything. I just stand my ground!! I have a doc now that likes to over order antibiotics for someone without seeing them. I now refuse to take verbal orders from her for antibiotics. It's my license and I'll protect it however I have to!!