Requiring a BSN degree for an ADN scope of practice

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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I recently attended an interview which BSN nurses were preferred (essentially required but they couldn't say so) but the duties were not upgraded. The position was at an ADN level of knowledge, skill, and ability. A BSN would be very hard pressed to use their advanced skill set in the position. Even with places that do require a BSN degree, the position doesn't require BSN knowledge. With the all shortage of positions and changes in nursing policy I'm sure this a common practice. I am a firm believer in education but this trend makes me uncomfortable. It's a waste of talent and doesn't increase the professionalism of nursing.

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
And I truly believe the ANA would be thrilled with that compromise,

I doubt it. They haven't said so. They continue to stick to their two tiered licensure proposal. I can hardly imagine anything more likely to cause friction and fighting. Probably their intention all along.

I cannot believe that having a work force that is more formally educated (as a whole and not sporadically as it is now) will not help nurses work towards better compensation with more respect from hospitals and the rest of the healthcare community.

Oh absolutly not! I don't think anyone even makes that argument.

In my area the comunity college ADN programs are all partnering with colleges and universitys so that their students can graduate with a BSN if they put in the extra time and effort. Any proposal to do away with the ADN would have to address the needs of the community colleges. For the CCs their nursing programs are their bright shining stars and they are not going to give them up. The also weild considerable political influence.

The best option is probably to simply add a few classes to exsisting ADN programs and relabel them BSNs.

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Specializes in Critical Care.

We found a few barriers to making BSN the entry to practice, and surprisingly one of them was BSN programs. As has been pointed out, what would make the most sense would be to just turn ADN programs into BSN programs, since we can't really expand BSN programs all that much, and we'd have to drastically change the role of nurses in healthcare if we cut our output by half. The people we met with who represented BSN programs only supported the 'BSN-in-10' model. They were surprisingly honest in pointing out that they benefit far more from requiring that ADN grads attend an RN-BSN program than they do in making ADN programs satellite BSN programs.

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Specializes in ER.
Advanced in walls of academia. I was referring the core nursing science courses such as community health, nursing research, and health assessment.

A lot of ADN programs include that in the curriculum.

Unfortunately, very few people want to point out recent articles that suggest a BSN is better. The only person brave enough to find me an article pointed out a European article which doesn't truly apply as a bachelors in Europe is different than a bachelors over in America. Which then lead to a rant that the education system needs to be adjusted and changed.

Not to make light of the subject too much, we a nurse who came up with "RN" stands for narcotics and refreshments and "BSN" now stands for Bed Side Nursing.

I have a BS in another field and my ADN (one semester away from finishing RN-BSN program), which technically make me a "baccalaureate trained nurse" which is a phrase they throw around. This is not the same as a bachelor degreed nurse. I live to split hairs must to annoy LOL.

I assume you are referring to how either baccalaureate or bachelor refers to the person and the other one refers to the degree but only a handful of people realize that? I forget which one is which.

Technically you are both, you just cannot say you have a bachelors in nursing.

I can't speak for every employer, but most that I am familiar with are prefering BSN's not just because it looks good for Magnet -- or some other such reason -- but mainly because they want nurses with the additional education. They want their staff nurses to have the ability to engage fully in evidenced-based practice, research, population care, etc. They want people who have taken the theory classes, research classes, statistics, etc. and who have been socialized into the professional culture that says that these sorts of activities are appropriate for the average staff nurse. And they want their staff nurses to be able to step into first-level leadership roles such as Charge Nurse, Preceptor, Assistant Head Nurse, Unit Educator, etc. positions and functions when necessary. They (we) believe that in most cases, the BSN-prepared nurses are more ready and able to fulfill those types of functions. It's not about the "physical tasks" of nursing -- it's about the leadership/broad perspective issues.

Nope. It's usually either for magnet or it is so they do not have to pay tuition reimbursement. It'll come to other areas soon enough, but many employers are paying "up to" the level of a BSN and not beyond. My former hospital system does that because they do not need MSNs as floor nurses.

A BSN should not factor into a charge nurse decision. Leadership and experience needs to be considered. The best charge nurses are the ones you don't have to ask what their degree is, they just are the charge nurse. The charge nurses I have had previously are usually ADNs and no one questions their experience in the ER.

I've looked at the BSN requirements around me and most of them have a handful of classes that are fluff classes. We should become like Europe and streamline the degrees to focus primarily on nursing education classes and not the extra fluff classes. Oh, and make it three years. Oh and someone did link to the European study that should not be used to compare to the US bachelors education.

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

I've looked at the BSN requirements around me and most of them have a handful of classes that are fluff classes. We should become like Europe and streamline the degrees to focus primarily on nursing education classes and not the extra fluff classes. Oh, and make it three years. Oh and someone did link to the European study that should not be used to compare to the US bachelors education.

When you make it 3 years with little fluff you essentially have a basic ADN program.

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I would encourage all boards of nursing to make BSN the entry level for nurses and shut the already existing ADN programs or turn them to BSN degree awarding programs.

My reason is that this well reduce the numbers of RN graduating each year thus increasing the demand for nurses. Its only in nursing you have LPN, ADN and BSN doing the same job. The nursing situation is so bad in terms of employment because nurses are flooded everywhere also, hospitals receive over 50 applications for just 1 nursing position.

Nursing boards should take a look at PT that requires doctorate degree at entry level and OT that requires masters and possibly doctorate in the near future . They are happy about this changes because this will keep their supply low and demand very high with few students graduating from their programs. Nurses really need to learn from them!

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Specializes in Emergency.

My hospital hires adn's with the agreement that they will complete their rn-bsn within 5 years. The hospital provides $5k/yr in tuition reimbursement.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.

emtb2rn: Aren't you lucky to be working for such an institution with such an enlightened policy? What's the waiting list like to get a job there?

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I would encourage all boards of nursing to make BSN the entry level for nurses and shut the already existing ADN programs or turn them to BSN degree awarding programs.

My reason is that this well reduce the numbers of RN graduating each year thus increasing the demand for nurses. Its only in nursing you have LPN, ADN and BSN doing the same job. The nursing situation is so bad in terms of employment because nurses are flooded everywhere also, hospitals receive over 50 applications for just 1 nursing position.

Nursing boards should take a look at PT that requires doctorate degree at entry level and OT that requires masters and possibly doctorate in the near future . They are happy about this changes because this will keep their supply low and demand very high with few students graduating from their programs. Nurses really need to learn from them!

You realize that the ANA has just extorted millions from the federal government to expand nursing programs? The propaganda they use is of course the looming "nursing shortage".

Also consider that the community college system is pretty politically powerful at the state level and NOW WAY are the going to give up their premier program without a fight.

How are you going to make the argument that we need to close nursing programs to fix/prevent a glut of nurses when the mighty ANA is telling politicians they need to use more of nurse's tax money to create even more new grads?

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You realize that the ANA has just extorted millions from the federal government to expand nursing programs? The propaganda they use is of course the looming "nursing shortage".

Also consider that the community college system is pretty politically powerful at the state level and NOW WAY are the going to give up their premier program without a fight.

How are you going to make the argument that we need to close nursing programs to fix/prevent a glut of nurses when the mighty ANA is telling politicians they need to use more of nurse's tax money to create even more new grads?

Based on your comment, I agree it's going to be a big fight. I'm an advocate for the board and nurses in higher authority to stand their ground and fight the good fight for the future of the nursing profession.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Based on your comment, I agree it's going to be a big fight. I'm an advocate for the board and nurses in higher authority to stand their ground and fight the good fight for the future of the nursing profession.

The reality is that there isn't a single organization advocating in the interest of nurses at the federal level, at least not one I have ever heard of.

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The reality is that there isn't a single organization advocating in the interest of nurses at the federal level, at least not one I have ever heard of.

That is so sad:angrybird10:

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
The reality is that there isn't a single organization advocating in the interest of nurses at the federal level, at least not one I have ever heard of.

Doesn't mean one can't be created...:whistling:

Anyone interested in joining? ;)

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