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Requiring a BSN degree for an ADN scope of practice

Posted

Specializes in Behavioral health.

I recently attended an interview which BSN nurses were preferred (essentially required but they couldn't say so) but the duties were not upgraded. The position was at an ADN level of knowledge, skill, and ability. A BSN would be very hard pressed to use their advanced skill set in the position. Even with places that do require a BSN degree, the position doesn't require BSN knowledge. With the all shortage of positions and changes in nursing policy I'm sure this a common practice. I am a firm believer in education but this trend makes me uncomfortable. It's a waste of talent and doesn't increase the professionalism of nursing.

klone, MSN, RN

Specializes in Women's Health/OB Leadership. Has 15 years experience.

There is no difference between scope of practice. There is no such thing as "ADN scope of practice". Both are RNs and that is what dictates scope of practice.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma. Has 41 years experience.

What do you mean...BSN level of practice and advanced skill. The ADN and the BSN are both entry degrees..

meanmaryjean, DNP, RN

Specializes in NICU, ICU, PICU, Academia. Has 40 years experience.

There are no 'advanced skills' that a BSN possesses that an ADN does not- nursing wise. They both take the same NCLEX exam, they both hold the same title.

Gentleman_nurse, MSN

Specializes in Behavioral health.

Let me clarify

A nurse with a BSN has additional skills and knowledge than a nurse with an ADN, yet a BSN degree is required for positions that do not use nor need the knowledge of a BSN.

meanmaryjean, DNP, RN

Specializes in NICU, ICU, PICU, Academia. Has 40 years experience.

Can you be more specific about these additional skills? What are they?

klone, MSN, RN

Specializes in Women's Health/OB Leadership. Has 15 years experience.

Why do you believe that one would not need or use the knowledge gleaned in BSN classes?

Yes, and what Maryjean asked - what are the specific skills and knowledge you're referring to?

Gentleman_nurse, MSN

Specializes in Behavioral health.

There are no 'advanced skills' that a BSN possesses that an ADN does not- nursing wise. They both take the same NCLEX exam, they both hold the same title.

Advanced in walls of academia. I was referring the core nursing science courses such as community health, nursing research, and health assessment.

klone, MSN, RN

Specializes in Women's Health/OB Leadership. Has 15 years experience.

And you do not think the knowledge gained in those courses would be utilized?

Gentleman_nurse, MSN

Specializes in Behavioral health.

What do you mean...BSN level of practice and advanced skill. The ADN and the BSN are both entry degrees..

Both entry level yes. Unfortunately not considered equal (in the eyes of others).

Gentleman_nurse, MSN

Specializes in Behavioral health.

And you do not think the knowledge gained in those courses would be utilized?

Can be used, yes. Should be used, yes. Required to be used, no as evidenced be job descriptions. From anecdotal conversations it seems a nurses must extend themselves to use the knowledge learned in a BSN program. The workplace doesn't prevent it but doesn't require it either.

Edited by Gentleman_nurse

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma. Has 41 years experience.

Can be used, yes. Should be used, yes. Required to be used, no as evidenced be job descriptions. From ancedotal conversations it seems a nurses must extend themselves to use the knowledge learned in a BSN program. The workplace dosn't prevent it but doesn't require it either.

Maybe I'm obtund...I still don't understand. The ADN and the BSN are entry degrees. The BSN allows for more rounded of a general education with NO difference in the clinical and nursing curriculum. Both graduate and new grads without nursing experience.

It is true that many facilities are hiring BSN only grads, pushing the BSN entry agenda, however, they are still bedside nurses. There is NO difference in nursing practice and the standards of care between a BSN grad and the ADN grad.

What is this difference and how should the job descriptions be different?

smartnurse1982

Has 7 years experience.

. There is NO difference in nursing practice and the standards of care between a BSN grad and the ADN grad.

WHat about the paper published by the ANA that states patients have better outcomes when the staff are BSN grads?

meanmaryjean, DNP, RN

Specializes in NICU, ICU, PICU, Academia. Has 40 years experience.

WHat about the paper published by the ANA that states patients have better outcomes when the staff are BSN grads?

Apples and oranges. The standards are the same. The NCLEX is the same. The outcome may indeed differ, but the practice and standards are, on paper, the same.

Gentleman_nurse, MSN

Specializes in Behavioral health.

Maybe I'm obtund...I still don't understand. The ADN and the BSN are entry degrees. The BSN allows for more rounded of a general education with NO difference in the clinical and nursing curriculum. Both graduate and new grads without nursing experience.

It is true that many facilities are hiring BSN only grads, pushing the BSN entry agenda, however, they are still bedside nurses. There is NO difference in nursing practice and the standards of care between a BSN grad and the ADN grad.

What is this difference and how should the job descriptions be different?

Perhaps this story might help.

When I graduated from college with my BA many years ago I applied employment position at a Museum. I was offered a position for a slightly higher than minimum wage heavy labor job to move boxes. During the interview it came out they were only interested in hiring college graduates for the position but the job didn't require anything more than a 8th grade education.

I see a similar trend in nursing. Institutions are requiring entry level nurses to possess a bachelors degree yet don't utilize the formal knowledge they bring. Maybe they see something intangible. Maybe over time the duties will grow to incorporate it. It's just a thought. I was wondering others think about this phenomena.

Edited by Gentleman_nurse
clarification

TheCommuter, BSN, RN

Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych. Has 15 years experience.

Perhaps this story might help.

When I graduated from college with my BA many years ago I applied employment position at a Museum. I was offered a position for a slightly higher than minimum wage heavy labor job to move boxes. During the interview it came out they were only interested in hiring college graduates for the position but the job didn't require anything more than a 8th grade education.

Ah. You're referring to credentialism, a.k.a. credential inflation, b.k.a. degree inflation.

itsmejuli

Specializes in Home Care.

Ah. You're referring to credentialism, a.k.a. credential inflation, b.k.a. degree inflation.

Exactly.

I'm looking at changing careers. Often I see that a "bachelors degree in any field" is required. What the heck difference will a "bachelors degree in any field" make when compared to someone with over 30 years work experience and an AA? Would a 22 year old new grad with a BA and no work experience get hired over me with an AA and 30 years work experience?

brandy1017, ASN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care.

If you already experienced this for an entry level job in the art field, why are you so surprised this would be an issue in a science field? I agree both ADN & BSN do the same job, but if a hospital can get someone with more education for the same money, does it really surprise you? The magnet status movement has been pushing for more BSN RN's and seem to be winning, also the glut of nursing grads makes this an easy choice as well.

Now more than ever, getting a job is about who you know. ADN's are still being hired and some even work in management but the pressure is on for BSN if not MSN. You must convince them to hire you. Showcase your nursing skills, experience and BA college background. Or you can enroll in a BSN program while you are trying to get a job, that would probably help, but would also cost an arm and a leg. Only you can decide what is the best move for you to make!

I'm sticking it out with an ADN because I need to save my money for security now and in the future. I just don't think the return is worth the risk financially as I'm older and much closer to retirement. If I were younger I would probably get the BSN and go by the cheapest route, probably WGU. Also if I was younger I would seriously consider getting an NP and getting out of the hospital assembly line break your back work environment!

And that is the advice I would give others just starting out! It really doesn't pay to stay a floor nurse and while you may have energy when you're young, you are only one patient away from being injured and in lifelong pain! This risk is all the more now as the obesity crisis has transformed our country and it is common to get even 300-500 pound patients in the hospital and nursing homes! If you aren't dramatically injured, you are still being subjected to the wear and tear on your body over time and most nurses have chronic back pain. It is really not worth it! If you have been doing this for years and don't have chronic back pain count yourself lucky!

Edited by brandy1017