Reamed for ordering an ethics consult

Nurses General Nursing

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This story is being posted with no identifying information to protect the innocent parties involved.

I am an ICU nurse. Last night, I was taking care of a patient in her late 70s who has been in the hospital for about a month now. She is septic and had a colectomy performed in early January due to c. diff colitis. Her abdomen remains partially open. She was only recently extubated and is not doing well. She has developed a secondary pneumonia, has terrible edema and wounds, is in great pain, can barely move, and is certainly suffering by all standards. The patient is confused at times, but also mouths and sometimes (when able) verbalizes that she does not wish to have this type of treatment.

The family approached me last night and told me that they have decided that they would like to make her a DNR/DNI. They told me that she never wanted this kind of treatment, and that since she is not getting better and the possibility of her recovering is slim, that they wish not to "code" her if her heart would stop beating and that they do not wish for her to be on the ventilator again.

As I would normally do in this type of situation, I paged the surgery team in charge and told them about the family's request. They were annoyed that I had even paged them. Even though they were in house, they did not come up to the room (this was around 2100). The chief resident spoke with one of the daughters but then refused to write a DNR/DNI order and did not talk to me again. The daughter was upset and nearly in tears and told me that she felt bad for asking. Apparently, the chief resident told her that there was "a chance" the patient could get better in "three months" and that she didn't need to be a DNR. I explained to the daughter, husband, and patient that there is nothing wrong with discussing this, and that if that is their wish, then they do have the right to enact it. I also explained that DNR/DNI does not mean we wouldn't treat her any differently, and we would still give her all the meds, abx, wound cares, etc, if that is what they would like for us to do. I told her that since the surgery team was not on the same page with them, that I would page the ethics consult person, which I did.

After initially speaking with the ethics consult, I was instructed to page the patient's attending. The chief resident had failed to even mention the DNR request to him. However, he basically reiterated to the family that the patient "might get better in three months" and that she "might" make it, doesn't need to be a DNR...yada yada. Meanwhile, the entire family is extremely upset as it has taken them a lot of time to make this tough decision, and they feel like they are not being listened to. I tried to speak with the attending after he got off the phone with the daughter, but he hung up the phone.

I then paged the ethics consult again to let her know what had happened. She agreed with me that not everyone was on the same page, and that there was definitely an ethical dilemma, and that she would come in to speak with the family in the morning. I charted that I had done all this (and with whom I had spoken to), mainly to cover my bases in case the patient would have coded during the night. The family thanked me for sticking up for them and even told one of the other nurses how appreciative they were for what I had done to help them in the situation.

Apparently, the chief resident must have read my electronic documentation this morning, because she called me and was infuriated that I had called ethics. She told me that it was "inappropriate" and that apparently "you don't understand what's going on with this patient." She asked me why I had called ethics and I told her that as a patient advocate, when a patient/family approaches me with the request to make their loved one a DNR/DNI, it is my duty to accept their wishes and that when not everyone is on the same page, a mediator is needed so that we can do what is best for the patient. She got even more upset and asked to speak with my charge nurse, who relayed the exact same information to her.

I can't believe I got chewed out for this! I printed out the policy and procedure regarding an ethics consult, and I followed it completely. I've previously had a decent relationship with this resident, and now I'm afraid what's going to happen when I go back to work and need to call her for something. :angryfire

Has anyone ever had this happen to them?

Specializes in ER/EHR Trainer.

There wouldn't be an ethics committee if things like this didn't happen.

I'd want you for my nurse any day, and I echo all of the others in their praise for you.

It appears the resident and the attending require a little "schooling" themselves. It isn't what they want, it is what is right for the patient.

Specializes in med/surg, ortho, rehab, ltc.

Quote "I also explained that DNR/DNI does not mean we wouldn't treat her any differently, and we would still give her all the meds, abx, wound cares, etc, "

Too bad the chief res and attending didn't automatically see this. The family and pt were simply putting an order in effect that will give them peace of mind. I like to think we all have the right to refuse CPR and intubation.

The call to ethics was appropriate. I suspect many RN's have gotten on some one's bad side when advocating for our pts. Thanks for sticking up for this family.

Specializes in Pedatrics, Child Protection.

You did a great job.

This is a stellar example of how misunderstoon DNR/DNI and Ethics are in general.

DNR does not equal euthanasia. Some docs have a hard time with that. Some equate DNR with giving up (see it all the time here....). Not sure why...is it ego?...seen as failure?....there is something underneath all of this.

And as far as ethics...oh my....I sit on our hospital ethics committee...sad to hear how many view the ethics committee/consultant as the "ethics police...here to tell us what to do". Couldn't be any more off track.

You did the right thing by advocating for the patient and family and contacting the ethics team when things didn't sit right with you. The surgery team seems to need some education regarding DNR and ethics. Good luck to whomever takes that one on!

:)

Specializes in ER, ICU, Administration (briefly).

Welcome to nursing....keep advocating for your patients.

Huh, that's odd. I think you did the right thing for sure, but where I work, the doctor's would almost always push the pt to be a DNR in this type of situation.

I wonder if the surgeon somehow mucked up the surgery and his trying to cover his a**?

Specializes in Critical Care, Education.

I want you to be MY nurse if I am ever in this situation!

Your actions absolutely personify what it means to be a nurse. You showed the courage to do the right thing instead of the easy thing.

Huh, that's odd. I think you did the right thing for sure, but where I work, the doctor's would almost always push the pt to be a DNR in this type of situation.

I wonder if the surgeon somehow mucked up the surgery and his trying to cover his a**?

Sometimes docs, especially surgeons will try to keep a person alive till they get out of the hospital and to a nursing home or rehab. The reason they do this is those list the goverment publishes that give stats on death rates as related to individual MDs. One of the last patients I cared for before I retired died about 12 hours after a transfer to rehab. It actually caused a investigation at the institution where I worked and my head nurse spoke to me about the situation and told me she thought that is exactly what went on. But I don't want to paint all surgeons with same brush, most of them would never dream of pulling a stunt like you just described. However, it has happened in the past and will most likely happen again.

You did the right thing. Good for you for beign a nurse who advocates for her patients when they are too ill to advocate for themselves. I hope the remaing won't cause you to hesitate to take the same exact action again as needed.

I'm not surprised someone is ticked. They are embarassed they didn't do the right thing and someone had the guts and brains to do what is right and call ethics.

You stand firm, chickie. This isn't about what others think but what is right for your patient. Be as proud of yourself as I am of you. Hugs.

and please, do NOT let those residents intimidate you!!!

you hold their contemptuous looks and outstare them.

KNOW you did everything right and honorable, and stand tall and proud...

ESPECIALLY in front of these resident bozos.

we are soooo darned proud of you, as is your pt and her family.

stay strong.

and please, stand right up to them.

they'll know they can't mess with you, when you hold your ground.

you rock contagion!!

leslie

Specializes in LTC.

I echo what everyone else said. You did a good job and don't let these doctors get you down. They could really learn a few good lessons from you.

Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.

I can't really add anything here, as it's already been said very well by other posters. Just know that I too agree that you did EVERYTHING right, and that you are IN the right. Whether they realize it or not, doctors do not pay our salaries and they do not dictate our role in patient care---we are patient advocates first and foremost, the voice of those who cannot speak for themselves. You did that beautifully. If I'm ever in a position where I'm desperately ill, cannot make decisions for myself, and my family's wishes are ignored, I'd want you for my nurse!

Here where I work, all the family has to do is sign the DNR form and it is legally binding and the doctor HAS to follow it. He cannot refuse it. He does not even have to sign it for it to be valid.

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