"LPNs should be done away with altogether"

[missjennmb]

As an offshoot to the News article about nursing education, an opinion was brought to the board that LPNs are not adequately prepared to care for patients, and that their education is not strenuous like an RN program is. Having been in the field for awhile, what is your opinion on the differences between LPNs and RNs, other than the legally different aspects (LPNs cannot do initial assessments or IVs in my state for instance)

I'm not looking to start trouble, but rather discuss the topic in an area other than an unrelated thread.

Differences in LPNs vs RNs (educationally, functionally, intellectually)

Best way to combat any possible negatives of the above

Advice for an LPN student (who is too far through her program to just throw it out and start over in an RN program - already applied for an LPN to RN program starting Jan 2010)

Should I really expect to run into attitudes in the workplace about my not being worthwhile as an employee and a care provider because I chose the path that I have? How do you handle it if you do?

There is a local small rural hospital that pays incredibly well for LPNs right out of school and who has been trying very hard to recruit us during clinicals... am I going to be inequipped to care for patients there because of my education? I would never want to get into a situation where patient care was compromised because my education was lacking somehow...

Jennifer

~slightly confused and frustrated LPN student

[Elin 2750]

Dear Hazel:

I graduated from LPN Nurisng School in 1971 (a 18 month program at a 350 bed hospital in New Jersey). I have worked as a Assistant Head Nurse in both ICU and ER, a Nursing Supervisor in a large skilled Care Facility, a MDS Coordinator, a Resident Care Manager, a Medication Aide Clinical Instructor, a CNA 1 and 2 Clincial Instructor and the list goes on and on. I also become a Child/Family Counselor (BA and MA in Guidance and Counseling from The University of Montana). I continued to work part time as an LPN over years while attempting to build my counseling practice in the subs of Portland, OR. Unfortunately, when people loss their jobs they also loss their insurance. My Counseling practice is off 85% and I no longer can afford to keep an office nor earn a living wage. I decided to go back to work as an LPN full ltime.

I took a job as a clinical instructor for a CNA and Medication Aide training program. I was paid $20.00 an hour with no benifits (not even holiday time). I was initally hired to work 2-3 days a week but soon found the Director of the school (a male RN) scheduling me for sometime 14 days straight and having me travel over 1 hour each way to clinical sites which included every weekend. It was a nightmare but I had to pay my rent and we do what we have to do to get by. In December of last year I was "let go" when I had to travel back east to bury my brother, sister-in-law and neice who were killed in a traffic accident (I made the mistake of requesting leave of absent pay which under the "American Family Leave Act" I was entiltled to). When I filed for unemployment benifits teh Director stated I "quit without notice" and had others employed by the school sign statements to that effect.

I never desired to get my RN...I loved Counseling and I loved being a LPN. I was never treated with disrepect as an LPN until I moved to the Portland, OR. I have worked with RN's who could not start IV's, do gastric feeding, regulate respirators, do wounding care, and many other simple and essential skills. These "RNs" also had terrible supervisory and communication skills and had no idea how to talk to nor respect others on their care team. How they young women passed their State Boards is beyond me. rthe scary thing is that "they " are out their taking care of people and they do not have a clue how to do it right!

I am 60 years old and have applied for over 50 jobs in the the last month and have had only 2 interviews and no job offers. I have a limp from a hip issue I was born with and keep thinking that this is the cause of not being hired (I can still out work a 25 year old). I do not know what is going to happen. What, I do kow is tha LPN's with vast amounts of skills and experience are being disrespected and under utilized here in Oregon. The hospital would rather use totally under skilled CNA II and pay them $13.50 instead of using skilled and experienced LPN's. In the mean time, I am fast going through my savings adn my 65 year old husband who retired went back to work as a janitor at night (his SSI check will not pay all the bills). Anyone have any advice?

thanks - E

[Leelee2]

In my state, we have heard that "the LPN program will be obsolete soon" since the mid 1980's. 30 years later, still lots of LPN programs and jobs!! Here they are hiring LPN's in hospital setting/med surg. partly due to the fact that they can pay an LPN less money. LPN's here can not do an initial assessment, IV push meds, or blood trans.

So the RN's help with those tasks. Not everyone has the desire to do RN program, or the $ for that program. The LPN is still a valuable assest to the healthcare team.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

I never understood the point of going for being an LPN instead of an RN. Might as well take it a step further. More job opportunities and [usually] higher pay.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

I never understood the point of going for being an LPN instead of an RN. Might as well take it a step further. More job opportunities and [usually] higher pay.

Not everyone can start off as an RN due to current circumstances in life. In addition, not everyone wants to be an RN. Some individuals want a fulfilling job that involves helping people and providing skilled nursing care without the same level of liability that RNs must assume. The LPN/LVN licensure enables people to have that kind of role.

Many people choose to become LPNs/LVNs with the intention of becoming RNs later on. The LPN role is a good springboard for later pursuing the RN. I was an LVN for four years before I earned my RN license. Some people must choose the route that will permit them to enter the job market quickly (within 12 months) with marketable skills that can command competitive wages. Others must stair-step their ways up the career ladder due to their current situations in life. While attending an RN program full-time during the entire year of 2009, I lived comfortably and earned nearly $50,000 that year as the result of working weekend double shifts as an LVN. On the other hand, many people who go straight for the RN without ever having been LVNs sometimes struggle financially either because they cannot work, or they must accept part-time employment in lower paying positions such as CNA, dietary aide, or unit secretary.

[Simba&NalasMom, LPN]

Dear Hazel:

I graduated from LPN Nurisng School in 1971 (a 18 month program at a 350 bed hospital in New Jersey). I have worked as a Assistant Head Nurse in both ICU and ER, a Nursing Supervisor in a large skilled Care Facility, a MDS Coordinator, a Resident Care Manager, a Medication Aide Clinical Instructor, a CNA 1 and 2 Clincial Instructor and the list goes on and on. I also become a Child/Family Counselor (BA and MA in Guidance and Counseling from The University of Montana). I continued to work part time as an LPN over years while attempting to build my counseling practice in the subs of Portland, OR. Unfortunately, when people loss their jobs they also loss their insurance. My Counseling practice is off 85% and I no longer can afford to keep an office nor earn a living wage. I decided to go back to work as an LPN full ltime.

I took a job as a clinical instructor for a CNA and Medication Aide training program. I was paid $20.00 an hour with no benifits (not even holiday time). I was initally hired to work 2-3 days a week but soon found the Director of the school (a male RN) scheduling me for sometime 14 days straight and having me travel over 1 hour each way to clinical sites which included every weekend. It was a nightmare but I had to pay my rent and we do what we have to do to get by. In December of last year I was "let go" when I had to travel back east to bury my brother, sister-in-law and neice who were killed in a traffic accident (I made the mistake of requesting leave of absent pay which under the "American Family Leave Act" I was entiltled to). When I filed for unemployment benifits teh Director stated I "quit without notice" and had others employed by the school sign statements to that effect.

I never desired to get my RN...I loved Counseling and I loved being a LPN. I was never treated with disrepect as an LPN until I moved to the Portland, OR. I have worked with RN's who could not start IV's, do gastric feeding, regulate respirators, do wounding care, and many other simple and essential skills. These "RNs" also had terrible supervisory and communication skills and had no idea how to talk to nor respect others on their care team. How they young women passed their State Boards is beyond me. rthe scary thing is that "they " are out their taking care of people and they do not have a clue how to do it right!

I am 60 years old and have applied for over 50 jobs in the the last month and have had only 2 interviews and no job offers. I have a limp from a hip issue I was born with and keep thinking that this is the cause of not being hired (I can still out work a 25 year old). I do not know what is going to happen. What, I do kow is tha LPN's with vast amounts of skills and experience are being disrespected and under utilized here in Oregon. The hospital would rather use totally under skilled CNA II and pay them $13.50 instead of using skilled and experienced LPN's. In the mean time, I am fast going through my savings adn my 65 year old husband who retired went back to work as a janitor at night (his SSI check will not pay all the bills). Anyone have any advice?

thanks - E

I wish I did have some words of wisdom for you. I, too, live in the Portland area and have been an LPN for 5 years. According to the BON here we only make up 8% of the state nursing population. Employers choose to remain ignorant of our actual scopes and skills and the fact that our scope IS 99% of that of RNs. I have been working with a staffing agency for a couple years and work continues to be very slow (my secondary agency has given me ONE shift in the 6 months that I have been signed on with them). I'm so sorry to hear about your horrible experience with the CNA school...I had an interview with one last summer and this "gentleman" literally made my skin crawl and I could not leave that interview soon enough! LOL

I interviewed with Kaiser (Mr. Scott by Sunnyside) about a month ago and was told that because the state of OR expanded the scope of the LPN a couple years ago, Kaiser in OR is looking to utlilize LPNs more than they have in the past. I have not heard back from them myself, but I would encourage you to check out www.kp.org to see what they have open; it looks as though they are looking to bring on quite a few LPNs these days.

From what I have seen, the situation here in Portland is a combination of a severely crippled economy and ignorant employers. OR seems to be an extreme example of a sad situation for us LPNs. I have heard that we are much more in demand in TX and CA, but I don't know whether your life situation would allow you to relocate. Personally, I love living here and I would almost work at Walmart before re-locating, anyway. Hang in there, sweetie. :hug:

[emt2lpn2]

Well I'm a new LPN and I became an LPN first because of the wait list for all the RN programs. I see really no difference in doing LPN or RN because it's all about what type of nurse are you looking to become. I know RN-BSN students who are so good at policies, make up of the body, and theory,that they missed the big part of vitals before giving a medication and your ABC's are always first before initiating treament. Some of the RN's I work with don't know anything about EKG's or IV's than I do because of my EMS background that they feel I'm much smarter than them. Basically it all boils down to reguardless of your title there is always someone who knows more than you do, where I work it's all based on experience when it comes to pay......and why should LPN's be done with we are licensed, we did get educated, an we did pass the NCLEX just like the RN's.........and the nurse practioners........and the doctors......we all need steps in Life to become the best of the best....we all decide based on what works for an individual and circumstances...... we are all nurses making a difference....................

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

I never understood the point of going for being an LPN instead of an RN. Might as well take it a step further. More job opportunities and [usually] higher pay.

There are plenty of reasons one might decide to obtain their LPN license. As mentioned by previous posters, the waiting lists for RN programs can be extremely competitive...some have waiting lists as long as 4 years. The creation of LPN to RN bridge programs have made the transition easier, and LPNs can obtain advanced standing on the waiting list. Why would a person wait for such an extended period of time twiddling their thumbs if they can, in fact, become licensed nurses within at least 18 months? And, they can actually determine if nursing is the right career for them without investing any further time or expense. Some high schools offer LPN programs in conjunction to their required high school cirriculum. An excellent opportunity for a high school graduate to be able to obtain competitive pay at a young age, and possibly obtain even their BSN before the age of 25. Or, they can decide early on, before life entraps them with commitments of children and marriage to go in an entirely different direction.

I can only go by my personal experience/observsations, of course, but from what I have seen with the nurses I speak to in my location, it seems that the RNs have acquired a great deal of responsibility but without the respected authority they deserve and need to properly advocate for their patients and profession. Again, this may not be everywhere, but this is prevelant where I have worked. It is not fair to make everything the RN's ultimate responsibility with so many factors against them such as the lack of support from administration regarding policies/procedures, disciplining their subordinates (such as LPNs and CNAs) that are negligent in patient care, physicians that tolerate nurses at best, because they believe we are useless and offer no major contribution to patient care. The 'everything is okay until something happens' mentality prevails, and this seems to have led to the burn out of so many dedicated nurses. Based on witnessing that way before I obtained my LPN license, it was easy for me to say that the LPN role was better suited for my stress level. This decision was not based on my knowledge level, but by making an accurate self assessment of how much I can tolerate.

[Bebet39]

They don't care. If such a big deal, why don't they give LPNs life experience credits and upgrade them to LPNs? LPNs do all the work that RNs don't. Many RNs out don't what it takes to be a good nurse. That's true that some can't tell when an IV is infiltrated, because I've seen that happen too.

[Bebet39]

When I was in school studying to be an LPN back in 1996, my instructor said that she didn't know where we were going to finds, because hardly anyone was hiring LPNs. Then when I graduated I went job hunting and no hospital wanted to hire LPNs. So I know first hand what it was like. The only jobs available at the time was LTC and corrections. I felt like I wasted my time going to school, because this is not the reason why I went to school. I went to school to be a nurse. I was looking forward to work in the hospital.

[guest2210]

A few years after I graduated LPN school, I was working in the hospital I did my clinicals in. A new RN BSN was hired and did not know what to do with a lady partsl suppository! She was book smart, but that was it. I ended up teaching her the skills she should have learned in her BSN program.

[Trinity1234]

really love all the positive posts about LPNs i am a up and coming LPN to be Dec17th this yr will be my last day then its on to NCLEX!! I am looking for ajhob as a LPN in Texas preferrably south Texas and its good to see you Rns and higher ups appreciating what LPNs are ...u could say Lpns got ur back!

I hope to work in any field and get my feet really wet! Here is praying that i find a job in Texas soon after i get my license...im a single mom here in wisc and it will be difficult to commute back and forth to do interviews and network to find a job!!! I hope it will work out send prayers my way pleez and wish me and my sons luck...

Ps you are all a breath of fresh air to me and a blessing...this post is great!!

[Trinity1234]

In my state, we have heard that "the LPN program will be obsolete soon" since the mid 1980's. 30 years later, still lots of LPN programs and jobs!! Here they are hiring LPN's in hospital setting/med surg. partly due to the fact that they can pay an LPN less money. LPN's here can not do an initial assessment, IV push meds, or blood trans.

So the RN's help with those tasks. Not everyone has the desire to do RN program, or the $ for that program. The LPN is still a valuable assest to the healthcare team.

Where do u live...may i ask? just curious!