As an offshoot to the News article about nursing education, an opinion was brought to the board that LPNs are not adequately prepared to care for patients, and that their education is not strenuous like an RN program is. Having been in the field for awhile, what is your opinion on the differences between LPNs and RNs, other than the legally different aspects (LPNs cannot do initial assessments or IVs in my state for instance)
I'm not looking to start trouble, but rather discuss the topic in an area other than an unrelated thread.
Differences in LPNs vs RNs (educationally, functionally, intellectually)
Best way to combat any possible negatives of the above
Advice for an LPN student (who is too far through her program to just throw it out and start over in an RN program - already applied for an LPN to RN program starting Jan 2010)
Should I really expect to run into attitudes in the workplace about my not being worthwhile as an employee and a care provider because I chose the path that I have? How do you handle it if you do?
There is a local small rural hospital that pays incredibly well for LPNs right out of school and who has been trying very hard to recruit us during clinicals... am I going to be inequipped to care for patients there because of my education? I would never want to get into a situation where patient care was compromised because my education was lacking somehow...
Specializes in Med/Surge, Geriatrics(LTC), Pediatricts,.
Wouldn't it be nice if an LPN who's proven his/her worth and has decades of experience could be grandfathered in as an RN!?! I can see some RN's who would be offended though. So, I don't mind going back to school to get my RN, however, I do take issue with having to take those liberal arts classes! I was told it will make me a "more rounded nurse..." HECK! At 51 years old I don't need to be any more rounded! I'm so round now I'm getting dizzy going in circles all the time! On a serious note though, I do want to get my RN, the money is the big issue at my age and looking at retirement in about twenty years.
Wouldn't it be nice if an LPN who's proven his/her worth and has decades of experience could be grandfathered in as an RN!?! I can see some RN's who would be offended though. So, I don't mind going back to school to get my RN, however, I do take issue with having to take those liberal arts classes! I was told it will make me a "more rounded nurse..." HECK! At 51 years old I don't need to be any more rounded! I'm so round now I'm getting dizzy going in circles all the time! On a serious note though, I do want to get my RN, the money is the big issue at my age and looking at retirement in about twenty years.
I think there should be more LPN to RN transition programs. It took me 4 1/2 years to get my prereqs and get through the nursing classes. I don't think it would be possible to grandfather people in since you do need your prereqs. But maybe one semester geared towards LPNs for the nursing part of it instead of 4 classes. Although at my school if you worked in acute, you only have to take your med/surg II and pysch rotation after getting your prereqs.
If you are in acute, check the local CC to see if this is an option for you. With 20 more years to go, it is still worth the investment to get your RN. Student loans are available if you don't have tuition assistance at you facility.
Specializes in acute rehab, med surg, LTC, peds, home c.
I am going to say something controversial that no LPN is going to like. You don't know what you dont know until you learn it. I was an LPN and like many of you, thought I knew just as much as any RN. I didn't know how much more I had to learn until I started taking classes toward my ADN. JMO
Wouldn't it be nice if an LPN who's proven his/her worth and has decades of experience could be grandfathered in as an RN!?!
ABSOLUTELY NOT! When you get your RN you will understand that this idea is absurd. I know many LPN's who I would trust over other RN's that I know. I fully accept LPN's but no matter which way you spin it a person without a degree should not be recognized as a person who has earned their degree.
Specializes in Med/Surge, Geriatrics(LTC), Pediatricts,.
I'm not saying a nurse who has not worked acute care, or have done virtually nothing with thier nursing for the past 20, 30, or more years should have the same considerations as one who has worked in acute care settings, emergency settings, or other such, should be grandfathered in, naturaly there would be guidlines. I may be an LPN, but I'm not stupid. Said with a grin.
To Kcochrane, yes, for myself I have checked into CC. that is where I was told taking a weaving class, or climbing a Mt. for the prereqs classes would make me a more rounded person... My game plan is the Excelsor on line program. Right now I've got student loans out the eyeballs for my Critical Care Tech training. You see, I'm one of those LPN's who is also an EMT. And am in training for the advanced level of care. And I've said it in the past, and I'll say it again, at age 51, how many more Mt.s do I have to climb, how many more wall hangings do I have to weave, how many more Classical music movements do I have to disect in order to get my RN? You see, I studied music in HS, was my minor, something fun to do. I live in an area of the country, where the Mts they climb for the gym class, are the Mts I have climbed all my life growing up, and the weaving class because I need an Art class, I have a loom, several as a matter of fact, and I weave many different projects, from weaving my own fabric to make sweaters, vests, and other rustic clothes, to making hand bags, and dresser scarves. So, why would anyone have to spend the time and MONEY to take those classes, just to satisfy a curiculum? Why can't a curiculum be taylored to fit the needs of the individual rather than be cookie cutter? Would make it more affordable for the adult to return to finish a degree.
I'm wondering, what if the tables were turned? What if "the powers that be" were saying: "Because an LPN can be trained to do the job an RN does, why don't we eliminate the RN's, and utilize the LPN's for a lesser cost?" How many people would be on the band wagon to lobby about saving the RN position? I have worked in a Hospital where LPN's have been totaly eliminated, if an LPN wants to work there, she/he, has the option to work as an aide, or must be enrolled in a RN program. If they don't pass the program, or pass state board exam, they have the option to resign or continue to work as aide. So, lets ponder that angle for a while. How secure is any one position? How good an LPN is sometimes depends on how good the information is from the RN, and how good the RN is, sometimes depends on how good the information is from the LPN. I know with this I'm probably infuriating some RN's, possibly some LPN's, but think about for a moment, how are we to come together as a group of NURSES, unless we band together?
It's ok for nurse aides to be med certified and take positions away from LPN's, no one thinks a second thought about that, it's just getting the job done at a cost effective means. So, why then is it not concievable to train an LPN to do some RN tasks the same way...
Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.
baloney.....i hate this saying.
i am going to say something controversial that no lpn is going to like. you don't know what you dont know until you learn it. i was an lpn and like many of you, thought i knew just as much as any rn.
To Kcochrane, yes, for myself I have checked into CC. that is where I was told taking a weaving class, or climbing a Mt. for the prereqs classes would make me a more rounded person... My game plan is the Excelsor on line program. Right now I've got student loans out the eyeballs for my Critical Care Tech training. You see, I'm one of those LPN's who is also an EMT. And am in training for the advanced level of care. And I've said it in the past, and I'll say it again, at age 51, how many more Mt.s do I have to climb, how many more wall hangings do I have to weave, how many more Classical music movements do I have to disect in order to get my RN? You see, I studied music in HS, was my minor, something fun to do. I live in an area of the country, where the Mts they climb for the gym class, are the Mts I have climbed all my life growing up, and the weaving class because I need an Art class, I have a loom, several as a matter of fact, and I weave many different projects, from weaving my own fabric to make sweaters, vests, and other rustic clothes, to making hand bags, and dresser scarves. So, why would anyone have to spend the time and MONEY to take those classes, just to satisfy a curiculum? Why can't a curiculum be taylored to fit the needs of the individual rather than be cookie cutter? Would make it more affordable for the adult to return to finish a degree. ...
Sorry you have to go through all that to get your RN. My cc didn't require basket weaving..lol. I Had to get my basic prereqs that were useful to my career. I was able to challenge my fundamentals. And had I been in acute I could have challenged two more nursing classes. I guess you are going to have to decide for yourself if it is worth it to climb those mountains. I decided it was worth my time and $$$ and finished at age 47. Keep your eyes open and keep searching, you may find a college that is going to give you more credit for your LPN.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
Very true...how would an RN feel to have to justify their very existence, having to explain to people on a constant basis why she works the position she works (the old question...WHY aren't you an RN?), or constantly be threatened with people telling you your position is useless, etc... And, we are speaking about fundamental skills, not advanced nursing. Yet, there are plenty of RNs that will shout to the rooftops that 'these are OUR skills', but when they are given back to them, they suddenly have 'no time' to do them and want assistance again.
And, some of this is starting where some agencies are working with less RNs in favor of adding more experienced LPNS...an agency I work for that gives immunizations to soliders has lowered the RN pay to the same as LPNs. Since the economy has worsened, I noted a shift from sending a mixture of both RNs and LPNs to a site, to a few months ago, sending one RN and several LPNs. Now, they are discussing sending out their more experienced LPNs as a team leader and reporting problems to an RN via telephone. The thought is that LPNs do know how to administer vaccinations, are certified in BCLS and can initiate care of a patient who has a reaction to a vaccination. And, of course, we are calling 911 after administering the first epinepherine.
Now, of course, the RNs are upset about this...however, if this continues to stand (I suspect it will), because some money is better than none, I am sure that there will eventually be RNs wanting to work for our pay because for the most part, administering shots is low risk, we do work with handsome soliders (I mean, WHO would not like to work and flirt all day long??) who are wonderful to us, feed us and make us comfortable. In fact, this economy may very well shift because it was never patient friendly to begin with...it can easily say get one RN to supervise several PNs (and I have seen this happen, also). SO, rather than think of us than 'less than'...consider us as partners in care and know that what affects one CAN in fact cause a negative effect in themselves.
I'm not saying a nurse who has not worked acute care, or have done virtually nothing with thier nursing for the past 20, 30, or more years should have the same considerations as one who has worked in acute care settings, emergency settings, or other such, should be grandfathered in, naturaly there would be guidlines. I may be an LPN, but I'm not stupid. Said with a grin.
To Kcochrane, yes, for myself I have checked into CC. that is where I was told taking a weaving class, or climbing a Mt. for the prereqs classes would make me a more rounded person... My game plan is the Excelsor on line program. Right now I've got student loans out the eyeballs for my Critical Care Tech training. You see, I'm one of those LPN's who is also an EMT. And am in training for the advanced level of care. And I've said it in the past, and I'll say it again, at age 51, how many more Mt.s do I have to climb, how many more wall hangings do I have to weave, how many more Classical music movements do I have to disect in order to get my RN? You see, I studied music in HS, was my minor, something fun to do. I live in an area of the country, where the Mts they climb for the gym class, are the Mts I have climbed all my life growing up, and the weaving class because I need an Art class, I have a loom, several as a matter of fact, and I weave many different projects, from weaving my own fabric to make sweaters, vests, and other rustic clothes, to making hand bags, and dresser scarves. So, why would anyone have to spend the time and MONEY to take those classes, just to satisfy a curiculum? Why can't a curiculum be taylored to fit the needs of the individual rather than be cookie cutter? Would make it more affordable for the adult to return to finish a degree.
I'm wondering, what if the tables were turned? What if "the powers that be" were saying: "Because an LPN can be trained to do the job an RN does, why don't we eliminate the RN's, and utilize the LPN's for a lesser cost?" How many people would be on the band wagon to lobby about saving the RN position? I have worked in a Hospital where LPN's have been totaly eliminated, if an LPN wants to work there, she/he, has the option to work as an aide, or must be enrolled in a RN program. If they don't pass the program, or pass state board exam, they have the option to resign or continue to work as aide. So, lets ponder that angle for a while. How secure is any one position? How good an LPN is sometimes depends on how good the information is from the RN, and how good the RN is, sometimes depends on how good the information is from the LPN. I know with this I'm probably infuriating some RN's, possibly some LPN's, but think about for a moment, how are we to come together as a group of NURSES, unless we band together?
It's ok for nurse aides to be med certified and take positions away from LPN's, no one thinks a second thought about that, it's just getting the job done at a cost effective means. So, why then is it not concievable to train an LPN to do some RN tasks the same way...
Pagan, I only WISH I could say the same about my area. LPNs only comprise 8% of the nursing population here. Additionally, the LPN's scope in my state has always been poorly understood. I was tickled to death when the state board published a really good article in its quarterly magazine about the scope of LPN versus RN and used hospital work as an example; it listed four potential scenarios of patient needs in a hospital setting and asked the reader to determine whether an RN or LPN would be more appropriate in each setting. The answer was that an LPN would have been appropriate for each listed setting and the real question was how to effectively oversee and manage the situation. It's a sad thing when most management is that clueless about our scope to the point where the board actually publishes an article about it!
I was recently told that a lot of hospitals receive twice as much funding from federal monies for RNs than they do for LPNs. Does anybody know what that's all about? If that's the case, no wonder some of us are being squeezed out.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
And, I also just want to add that for me, not getting basic recognition as a nurse is not the most distressing for me. A clear slap in the face is when (some-not all) nursing collagues show open disregard and disrespect for the LPN title. It is not disgusting to be an LPN, it is not a horrendous travesty for an LPN to decide to stay one, the earth won't shatter, the sky will not fall. I am all for giving the RNs the glory, but, don't disregard my calling at MY level to be as effective of a nurse as my scope of practice allows.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
Pagan, I only WISH I could say the same about my area. LPNs only comprise 8% of the nursing population here. Additionally, the LPN's scope in my state has always been poorly understood. I was tickled to death when the state board published a really good article in its quarterly magazine about the scope of LPN versus RN and used hospital work as an example; it listed four potential scenarios of patient needs in a hospital setting and asked the reader to determine whether an RN or LPN would be more appropriate in each setting. The answer was that an LPN would have been appropriate for each listed setting and the real question was how to effectively oversee and manage the situation. It's a sad thing when most management is that clueless about our scope to the point where the board actually publishes an article about it!
I was recently told that a lot of hospitals receive twice as much funding from federal monies for RNs than they do for LPNs. Does anybody know what that's all about? If that's the case, no wonder some of us are being squeezed out.
I can see how the hospital may get more funds for hiring RNs than LPNs...it seems to be about dollars and cents. They ask for more, and if the funds are not used, they won't be granted again (I know it is more complex than that, but that is the simple way for me to understand it).
I can't change what the public, the boards or my RN collagues feel about LPNs. My only beef is I don't react kindly to unsolicited advice or being devalued because of my title alone, not my talents.
you know, im beggining to think the lpn vs rn is more generational. the lpns are usually older and the rns younger and i think thats where conflict arise. seeing someone with more education but less experience may make the older generation angry.now, in my personal observations, when i was an lpn there were a few nasty comments but nasty commnets have gotten worse since crossing to the other side from lpns. please,this is just my opinion and observations so please dont react negatively to what i am saying. also, in a post above, someone wrote their agency is paying rns and lpns the same. i think no rn would work for the same pay b/c its unfair. i hope no rns work with that b/c after all those years trying to get a fair wage, this would feel like a slap in the face. remember, a lot were lpns at one time. so, just think how many went back to school to become rns only to stay at the same pay rate.
nursedora
105 Posts
Wouldn't it be nice if an LPN who's proven his/her worth and has decades of experience could be grandfathered in as an RN!?! I can see some RN's who would be offended though. So, I don't mind going back to school to get my RN, however, I do take issue with having to take those liberal arts classes! I was told it will make me a "more rounded nurse..." HECK! At 51 years old I don't need to be any more rounded! I'm so round now I'm getting dizzy going in circles all the time! On a serious note though, I do want to get my RN, the money is the big issue at my age and looking at retirement in about twenty years.