As an offshoot to the News article about nursing education, an opinion was brought to the board that LPNs are not adequately prepared to care for patients, and that their education is not strenuous like an RN program is. Having been in the field for awhile, what is your opinion on the differences between LPNs and RNs, other than the legally different aspects (LPNs cannot do initial assessments or IVs in my state for instance)
I'm not looking to start trouble, but rather discuss the topic in an area other than an unrelated thread.
Differences in LPNs vs RNs (educationally, functionally, intellectually)
Best way to combat any possible negatives of the above
Advice for an LPN student (who is too far through her program to just throw it out and start over in an RN program - already applied for an LPN to RN program starting Jan 2010)
Should I really expect to run into attitudes in the workplace about my not being worthwhile as an employee and a care provider because I chose the path that I have? How do you handle it if you do?
There is a local small rural hospital that pays incredibly well for LPNs right out of school and who has been trying very hard to recruit us during clinicals... am I going to be inequipped to care for patients there because of my education? I would never want to get into a situation where patient care was compromised because my education was lacking somehow...
Specializes in Med/Surge, Geriatrics(LTC), Pediatricts,.
What State or Country do you live/work in? Sounds quite different from any I've done. I hold licensure in both TN and NY States. And for the most part nurses are basicaly two different categories, LPN, or RN. (RN has different levels, but that's another ball game.) For the most part the LPN program is one year, the course I took was a 12 month program at a practical nursing school, other programs are 9 months (school term) none the less, all in the one year range of training.
LPN's here are trained to pass meds, PO, IM, SQ, ID, Topicals. And in some states, or even between some different facilities, an LPN can be IV certified, and start IV's, push IV meds, and hang IV solutions. Some specifics an LPN has to have the RN do, such as hanging the first dose of an IV antibiotic, or hanging blood/blood products for example.
Some nurses who are LPN's prefer to remain as LPN's do so because the main difference is the paperwork involved. Some people would rather do the "hands on care" than to sit at a desk all shift doing paperwork. There are pay scale differences, but those are as vast as the many different facilities there are. Some pay LPN's quite handsomely others don't.
I hope this clearifies your understanding of this thread, knowing the difference between LPN's and RN's in most areas of the states. If any other readers can help Scrubby more chime in!
I also found that the new RNs tend to have a chip on thier shoulder towards LPNs, even when they are being trained by one! day!
I have also found that some LPNs carry a defensive shield on their shoulders. Quick to get defensive and snappy when asked a question.
"Yes, you have always done it that way, but isn't there just a tiny little possibility, if you please, that this way might possibly, just possibly work better?"
".......I have been a LPN for (insert number of years) of my life and...".
This scenario, does not make for the best working relationships:)
Specializes in Mes/Surg, Rehab, Ortho, ALF admin, Hospi.
Thank you so much for saying that! There is nothing more true! I meant what I said when I took my oath! I am proud of the fact that I am an LPN, so please everyone stop asking us..."Are you an RN or an LPN?"
The new RNs have had only Hospital clinical experience on at most 5 patients at a time. They have read most procedures only in books (catheters, etc.) where LPNs have physically performed these tasks repeatedly. I also found that the new RNs tend to have a chip on thier shoulder towards LPNs, even when they are being trained by one!
I'm sure you are referring to your own experience, but when I was in school, we did hands on from the beginning. Did I learn everything I needed to learn while I was in school? Heck no--who does? Nothing teaches like experience, but to say RN's are reading about skills instead of performing them seems crazy. I can't imagine going through school and not performing those skills.
I think RNs tend to feel disgruntled about LPNs because where I work--LPNs can't do IV pushes, can't do central line care, can't hang certain meds, can't make care plans, can't telephone the doctor or take orders, and the biggest thing is not being able to do admissions. So the RN is therefore responsible for her own patients and taking care of the LPN's certain medications, doing her admissions, doing her care plans, etc. It's not saying LPNs are worthless or whatnot--I work with very good LPNs--it's just added responsibilities on top of everything else we're already responsible for.
I don't think a RN should be trained by a LPN, that's my opinion. Yes there is patient care involved, but the responsibilities are not the same when you get down to it.
In my first week in a BSN/RN school (yay!), we had TEAMWORK constantly drilled into our head. My clinical instructor is freakin' awesome, with patient care being her top priority and the b.s. being untolerated. I love her, and I'm intimidated by her!!! With RNs being so freakin' overloaded, how can we work WITHOUT the support of LPNs and PCTs and CNAs?!
That said, it has also been drilled into our heads that, by law, we, as RNs, will be ultimately responsible for patient care, and we must take accountability for it, even if we are taking the heat for a task performed by an LPN, PCT, or CNA. In fact, there IS NO "taking the heat for someone else." It's our responsibility to begin with, so I'm not sure why any RN would want to alienate the LPNs and others who are involved in patient care. However, if I was working with an LPN who made it apparent that he/she didn't like me just because I was a novice RN, it would take much longer for me to be comfortable being responsible for the care the LPN gives.
And, honestly...after I get out of school, I don't give a flying fig what letters are after their names, as long as I can learn from them, as long as he/she knows what they're doing. Being a novice nurse scares the crap outta me.
Specializes in Med/Surge, Geriatrics(LTC), Pediatricts,.
Some LPN's who are defensive, usualy are that way because of the way they have been treated by other's, RN's, Administrators, CNA's, the whole gamet. Same as the RN's with the chip on their shoulders, they usualy got that chip by being told they are better than their LPN counterparts. Both need to see the other's side of things to soften/balance out.
I too am proud to be an LPN, however, in this economy, and my advancing age, if I can get my RN within a year or two, and get a higher rate of pay, in turn equals a higher percentage for my retirement account, in turn equals a better living when I am too old to work any more, then I'm all for it. I was the wall flower that never married, so I don't have a husbands SS or retirement to link with mine for a living, only what I make. So, for me it boils down to money. I don't want to be like those whom I took care of when I worked in the Nursing home, who thought their SS would be enough to take care of them, only to find out they are ending up just a hair away from indigent care.
As far as LPN's training RN's. What's the job? In most LTC facilities, the LPN is the one who is most apt on the medication passes, thus the one most apt to orient/train the new hires, RN and LPN alike on the job. Is it any different than a CNA training an LPN to the routine for CNA duties? In school we were all taught the basics, the real learning starts the first day after graduation with your new job, and doesn't end till your life ends. No matter who the teacher is. And seasoned LPN's do have that wealth of knowlege that new RN grads haven't obtained yet. So, blanket say that LPN's should not teach RN's? Here's another scenario on LPN's teaching RN's... I'm also a CPR instructor, and I was responsible to teach the CPR/FA classes for the facility I work for, that meant teaching RN's as well as other staff. So, should an RN be the CPR instructor just so they are not being taught something new by an LPN? Is an RN going to be a better CPR instructor over an LPN or even a lay person who has the training and certification of being a CPR instructor just because they are an RN?
As far as the responsibilities of passing medications, responsibility is responsibility. And if an LPN know's her scope of practice, she/he also know's the scope for the RN, or at least the facility policy, and has some familiarity of what is expected to be done by the RN. So, orientation/teaching can be effectively done by LPN's with RN's as the orientee. I do agree, an LPN can not be allowed to teach an RN program, that has to be equal or higher level of training. But that is a different ball game than an LPN orienting an RN to the med pass, treatments, or the routine of the unit, more so in a LTC facility than in a hospital. Here is another example coinsiding with 4yearnurses' statement in regard to LPN's having practical experience vs RN's only "reading" about the skills. A long time ago, back when dinasors roamed the earth, when I was a new LPN, I had a coworker who was hired about six months after me, my RN Unit manager in the Hospital I worked, felt comfortable with my skills, this new RN was partnered with me to orient to the day to day routine, and I was to precept her in skills within my scope of practice. This one particular shift, the Dr ordered an indwelling foley cath to be inserted on one of our pt assignments. The new RN was all excited that she was going to get to put in a catheter. Said she never had actualy done one, even in school, but that she had read all about it in her text book, and passed the written exam on the proceedure. The unit manager told me to watch her carefuly, and if she started to deviate any from protocol to stop her, and take over myself. Well, this new RN, broke the sterile field right from the beginning by touching the sterile catheter with her bare hands. I stoped her, had her come out of the pts room and told her what she had done, and took over, with a new catheter kit. The new RN was quite put out because a "Lowly LPN" made her stop, and took over the proceedure. Yes, working together, RN's and LPN's in teamwork is essential, at the same time, advocating for your pt is even more essential. No matter what level training you have. It is just as much my responsibility as an LPN to stop an RN who isn't following infection control standards as it is an RN's responsibility to stop the LPN who isn't following policy. Thus, who cares what alphabet soup you have behind your name as long as the job is done correctly, right? An element to being a good LPN is one who not only know's what her/his scope of practice is, and facility protocols, but know's the RN's. It works toward the team work concept.
Its amazing the way some people have the ability to use their arrogance and negativity to discourage others. I been an lpn for few years but I feel very competent in what I do. I consider myself having much more exposure to clinical situations than some of the rns I work with, however I aknowledge that they have some more theorical and more clinical procedures taugh while in nursing school but, during and after orientation they still asking questions to whom? THE LPNS ON THE FLOOR!!! that knows where everything is and how things works, the ones that most of the times knows the policies and procedures and what the patients needs are. So having said that, I only conclude by advise you not be discouraged by any comments you will continue to hear, you will find many in your path as a nurse just do your job to the best of your ability and take proud in it.
Specializes in telemetry, med-surg, home health, psych.
who in the world thinks that "LPN's should be done away with" ????
Are you people crazy ???? the only difference in an RN and an LPN are a few more clinicals and deeper instruction with each body system....seriously, most of our learning is "on the job" so I would rather work with an LPN that has been working for 10 years than a "RN new grad" any day !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as a matter of fact, at my hospital they quit using LPN's in the med room on a few units and started using RN's from the floor........it was a disaster, more med errors than you can imagine !!!! we need LPN's and RN's alike..........RN's were not used to it and it sure showed...........
this is a ridiculous post, in my humble opinion.........
...another thing I would like to add ( I responded awhile back to this thread), I have been an LPN for 33 years and I have a vast experience in so many nursing venues because when I was young I constantly took jobs in as many areas of nursing that were open to me. I liked the challenges. I accepted the fact that I didn't have the brains to be an RN and this was a tough thing to accept but , never the less, I have the heart and the patience and THE CALLING to be a nurse. I accept that we are all a big family/community in the nursing field and there must be indians as well as chiefs. Also, there are so many arenas for the nurse. Not everyone can do hospice, not everyone can do ER or Or or school nursing ..et cetera..so thank God there are so many nurses for so many needs. I wish I could be hired as a travelling nurse but those agencies hire only RNs. I do not like LTCs..everything about them grieves my spirit. So, I have decided to be a home health nurse so I can do my part to keep people home and out of LTCs and I have gone with a national nursing agency and gotten reciprocity in the states that I want to work in so that is how I satisfy my desire to be a travel LPN..while it is not exactly the ideal I pride myself on my creativity and resourcefulness...so I hope they do not do away with LPNs. They told me that33 years ago and I'm still goiing strong. It Would , however, be great if they gave me my RN by proxy being as I have more than earned my stripes by being in the trenches for 3 decades!!!!
Specializes in Med/Surge, Geriatrics(LTC), Pediatricts,.
HERE! HERE! I'm right behind you with 22 years experience as LPN. I've lost track of who started this thread, but the concensus is that LPN's are a vital part of the family tree of nursing, and should not be done away with. My question now is, even though we've been here for 33, 22 years and more from some, less from others, but all who are LPN's like what we do, how do we lobby or canvas to make our jobs as LPN's not only secure, but be able to stop justifying our jobs, and be able to concentrate on doing a good job. I too have found a niche in the home health care field. I love what I do.
I did get burned out after doing ten plus years in a "skilled nursing facility." Fancy term for LTC. It is easier said than done to not get attached to those "Grandma's and Grandpa's" and treat them as clients, or cases, rather than people. Especialy when you live in a small town where everybody is related somehow to everybody else, and half the people you are now careing for have cared for you in the past, either as a baby sitter or someone you grew up with. Oh, and those pet names we aren't supposed to use, how are you supposed to not use a pet name for someone you've known for 40 some years and used a pet name for him/her? Watching those "family" members die on a daily basis, wears on you after a while.
YES!! we LPNs need to start a real " RESPECT" movement!! We seriously need to demand and get the respect we deserve within the medical community..and for those of us that have been practising for decades, I believe we should be RN'd by proxy!!
I agree with something i came across, Licensed Practical Nurse (LPN): Though Licensed Practical Nurses have a smaller amount of training than Registered Nurses, they are working in all areas of health care. They work in hospitals, nursing homes, and medical clinics. LPNs perform some functions as monitoring a patient's taken as a whole condition, giving injections, taping vital signs, and relating dressings. They will also help patients with personal health and statement any handling reactions.Registered Nurse (RN): Registered Nurses do the job in about all areas of the health care career. They act upon many tasks that include: supervising treatments such as medications, performing assured medical actions, monitoring essential signs, recommending and at the bottom of patients, taming patients about medical circumstances and keep families up-to-date on a patient's status. Registered Nurses can concentrate in convinced medical regions. I think that in my own personal opinion LPN's do not get the recognition that they deserve, they are undervalued for the work that they do which is sad to see. http://www.nursingstudenttutor.com/nursing/type-of-nurses.html
However, if I was working with an LPN who made it apparent that he/she didn't like me 
nursedora
105 Posts
What State or Country do you live/work in? Sounds quite different from any I've done. I hold licensure in both TN and NY States. And for the most part nurses are basicaly two different categories, LPN, or RN. (RN has different levels, but that's another ball game.) For the most part the LPN program is one year, the course I took was a 12 month program at a practical nursing school, other programs are 9 months (school term) none the less, all in the one year range of training.
LPN's here are trained to pass meds, PO, IM, SQ, ID, Topicals. And in some states, or even between some different facilities, an LPN can be IV certified, and start IV's, push IV meds, and hang IV solutions. Some specifics an LPN has to have the RN do, such as hanging the first dose of an IV antibiotic, or hanging blood/blood products for example.
Some nurses who are LPN's prefer to remain as LPN's do so because the main difference is the paperwork involved. Some people would rather do the "hands on care" than to sit at a desk all shift doing paperwork. There are pay scale differences, but those are as vast as the many different facilities there are. Some pay LPN's quite handsomely others don't.
I hope this clearifies your understanding of this thread, knowing the difference between LPN's and RN's in most areas of the states. If any other readers can help Scrubby more chime in!