Okay, I fully expect to be slammed for this. What do all these posts about gaming the system to get early results say about the character of some of the new grads/nurse candidates? One of the prime requisites of being a nurse is good judgement. Boasting about or encouraging fraudulent behavior by using inaccurate or inadequate credit card information to get test results hours or days quicker does not speak well of one's judgement and maturity. Is this what we accept from our colleagues?
It may be harsh but I think this is a matter of integrity. I understand impatience very well, I understand wanting to know if all the work of school paid off, what I don't understand is how easily one can ignore the lessons of integrity and professionalism.
If one can lie to a faceless testing company how one respond when faced with a potential life threatening situation that requires, patience, integrity, and maturity. It's a slippery slope, a little harmless deception here may reveal character issues that come to light when real harm may be caused.
So, slam me, flame me, whatever, or I hope some will agree with me.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Think abut it? Okay; I would be just fine if the nurse taking care of me or my loved ones did the new pvt with a $5 gift card and got "the good pop up" if he/she was providing safe and compassionate care. I would not discredit their character or integrity for doing that because that is absolutely ridiculous.
If we let nurses with DUIs, bad credit, owed back child support, unpaid parking tickets continue to practice, I think someone who does the new pvt is really not the person I'm worried about caring for me or my family.
If you're asserting that pvt participants who use a $5 gift card are in the same category as dishonest, integrity-lacking people who skip out on their taxes, children, student loans, credit card debt, what-have-you, well, I have to 100% disagree with you.
The first reveals an intent to defraud. All because the person lacks the patience to wait 48 hours for the real test results. Owed back child support may also be an intent to defraud -- or it may be someone who is just getting back on their feet and making a good faith attempt to catch up.
I don't want a nurse caring for me or working beside me who displays a basic lack of integrity.
If your coworker lacks integrity, what ELSE would he/she do when they felt rushed or anxious or unable to wait for legitimate results? Take the Metoprolol out of YOUR drawer to give THEIR patient? Probably not a big deal -- except that you now have to go the route of contacting pharmacy to get a replacement, and YOUR patient's dose is late even though you, as a good nurse, checked to make sure all the meds were there when you gave your 8:00 Lasix dose a couple of hours ago. Maybe the narcotic count is off when they go into Pyxis for their patient's oxycodone dose. But they're too impatient to go through the effort of documenting a discrepency or attempting to fix it -- so they just go merrily on their way and now the next person who enters the Pyxis has to try to fix it. And those are just the "no big deal", relatively harmless examples I could come up with on the spot.
A nurse who lacks integrity may throw you under the bus for something that wasn't your fault or your responsibility. Even if your manager investigates and concludes that it wasn't your fault, you've still gone through the investigation and have the stain of doubt on your name. A nurse who lacks integrity may take unsafe shortcuts and risk harming a patient -- and that patient may be your mother or your baby sister.
And yes, someone who intentionally uses a $5 gift card to "pay" a $200 tab is being dishonest. The fact that so many people here don't seem to see that -- or can find ways to excuse it -- is scaring the bejesus out of me. I avoid the PVT threads -- I had no idea there were so many dishonest nurses entering our profession!
When you're charting do you usually chart after finishing everything in a patient's room, or do you chart after a set number of actions? For example, if I had dressing changes and meds in a patient's room, would I chart after doing both?
That's a good question. For time saving I'd say the vast majority of us chart after we have finished all the tasks for a patient due at that time. Of course it's understood that you didn't do everything at the exact time of charting. We used to call it block charting and sometimes I still document a time range. But if you chart that you did a specific procedure at a specific time and you didn't that's where things get sticky. This was less of an issue before EMRs because we really did document the time we actually did our tasks because there wasn't an electronic time stamp denoting when the charting is being done. If you have the time to document in "real time" that's always the best way to go but it's pretty unrealistic in this day and age.
The first reveals an intent to defraud. All because the person lacks the patience to wait 48 hours for the real test results. Owed back child support may also be an intent to defraud -- or it may be someone who is just getting back on their feet and making a good faith attempt to catch up.
I don't want a nurse caring for me or working beside me who displays a basic lack of integrity.
If your coworker lacks integrity, what ELSE would he/she do when they felt rushed or anxious or unable to wait for legitimate results? Take the Metoprolol out of YOUR drawer to give THEIR patient? Probably not a big deal -- except that you now have to go the route of contacting pharmacy to get a replacement, and YOUR patient's dose is late even though you, as a good nurse, checked to make sure all the meds were there when you gave your 8:00 Lasix dose a couple of hours ago. Maybe the narcotic count is off when they go into Pyxis for their patient's oxycodone dose. But they're too impatient to go through the effort of documenting a discrepency or attempting to fix it -- so they just go merrily on their way and now the next person who enters the Pyxis has to try to fix it. And those are just the "no big deal", relatively harmless examples I could come up with on the spot.
A nurse who lacks integrity may throw you under the bus for something that wasn't your fault or your responsibility. Even if your manager investigates and concludes that it wasn't your fault, you've still gone through the investigation and have the stain of doubt on your name. A nurse who lacks integrity may take unsafe shortcuts and risk harming a patient -- and that patient may be your mother or your baby sister.
And yes, someone who intentionally uses a $5 gift card to "pay" a $200 tab is being dishonest. The fact that so many people here don't seem to see that -- or can find ways to excuse it -- is scaring the bejesus out of me. I avoid the PVT threads -- I had no idea there were so many dishonest nurses entering our profession!
Plain and simple, that is slippery slope logic (if/then arguments tend to be). Just like if marriage equality laws pass, then before you know it people will be marrying their pet ducks. Totally ridiculous in my opinion.
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
How does instant gratification effect a nurses care of their patient?
The way it's being explained isn't using a credit card the most immoral thing ever? You use a credit card when you know you don't have funds for a purchase on hand.
"You're paying for the test using money that you don't have." That's the kind of logic being used here.
PearsonVue is the company that provides registration and administration of the test, if you don't get a chance to take the test isn't Pearson commiting fraud by refusing a refund for services not completed.
Sorry, I don't understand the analogy between making a bet and trying the PVT with a low fund gift card.
Conducting a $200 transaction without planning to actually pay the $200 is fraud. Whether you use a $5 gift card or a bogus credit card number, you are agreeing to pay $200 that you have no intention to actually pay. You can argue that it's not wrong because it doesn't actually hurt Pearson Vue. I'm not sure that's true. Any company that has to process a lot of bogus transactions is probably feeling it somewhere.
If someone is willing to fudge on that, then I can't be sure what they're not willing to fudge on. Will they skip giving a med and rationalize that one skipped med doesn't matter in the scheme of things? Like someone said, it's not about sainthood and perfection, it's about integrity. I find it alarming the number of people who don't get it.
Surveys consistently show nurses as being the #1 trusted profession. If the Pearson Vue employees participated in these surveys, would they have a different story to tell?
You know, I didn't realize internet nurses were such harsh judges of character. I'm so glad these are opinions of online personas and have no impact on my real life whatsoever. I would like to believe that in real life y'all aren't this judgemental. So salty.
The first reveals an intent to defraud. All because the person lacks the patience to wait 48 hours for the real test results. Owed back child support may also be an intent to defraud -- or it may be someone who is just getting back on their feet and making a good faith attempt to catch up.
I don't want a nurse caring for me or working beside me who displays a basic lack of integrity.
If your coworker lacks integrity, what ELSE would he/she do when they felt rushed or anxious or unable to wait for legitimate results? Take the Metoprolol out of YOUR drawer to give THEIR patient? Probably not a big deal -- except that you now have to go the route of contacting pharmacy to get a replacement, and YOUR patient's dose is late even though you, as a good nurse, checked to make sure all the meds were there when you gave your 8:00 Lasix dose a couple of hours ago. Maybe the narcotic count is off when they go into Pyxis for their patient's oxycodone dose. But they're too impatient to go through the effort of documenting a discrepency or attempting to fix it -- so they just go merrily on their way and now the next person who enters the Pyxis has to try to fix it. And those are just the "no big deal", relatively harmless examples I could come up with on the spot.
A nurse who lacks integrity may throw you under the bus for something that wasn't your fault or your responsibility. Even if your manager investigates and concludes that it wasn't your fault, you've still gone through the investigation and have the stain of doubt on your name. A nurse who lacks integrity may take unsafe shortcuts and risk harming a patient -- and that patient may be your mother or your baby sister.
And yes, someone who intentionally uses a $5 gift card to "pay" a $200 tab is being dishonest. The fact that so many people here don't seem to see that -- or can find ways to excuse it -- is scaring the bejesus out of me. I avoid the PVT threads -- I had no idea there were so many dishonest nurses entering our profession!
I can't understand how using a gift card to try the PVT is the same as defrauding someone. You're drawing a lot of assumptions just from one act a person does. You can look back at any human being's life and I'm sure you'll find numerous times that the person hasn't been perfect.
If a nurse holds different beliefs does it mean they are less honorable or have less integrity then their peers?
It's a business decision, by using a gift card you ensure that don't pay for something that isn't needed.
That's a good question. For time saving I'd say the vast majority of us chart after we have finished all the tasks for a patient due at that time. Of course it's understood that you didn't do everything at the exact time of charting. We used to call it block charting and sometimes I still document a time range. But if you chart that you did a specific procedure at a specific time and you didn't that's where things get sticky. This was less of an issue before EMRs because we really did document the time we actually did our tasks because there wasn't an electronic time stamp denoting when the charting is being done. If you have the time to document in "real time" that's always the best way to go but it's pretty unrealistic in this day and age.
Thanks, I just had a follow up question. How much of a difference is normal between actions and the charting of the actions? For example, if I do a dressing change at 0800 but can't chart the action until 0830 is that okay?
Conducting a $200 transaction without planning to actually pay the $200 is fraud. Whether you use a $5 gift card or a bogus credit card number, you are agreeing to pay $200 that you have no intention to actually pay. You can argue that it's not wrong because it doesn't actually hurt Pearson Vue. I'm not sure that's true. Any company that has to process a lot of bogus transactions is probably feeling it somewhere.
If someone is willing to fudge on that, then I can't be sure what they're not willing to fudge on. Will they skip giving a med and rationalize that one skipped med doesn't matter in the scheme of things? Like someone said, it's not about sainthood and perfection, it's about integrity. I find it alarming the number of people who don't get it.
Surveys consistently show nurses as being the #1 trusted profession. If the Pearson Vue employees participated in these surveys, would they have a different story to tell?
Also, Pearson-Vue is an enormous company that administers a butt-ton of different tests I am confident it is a completely automated payment system in which no actual people are harmed by the pvt. Their servers can handle it.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I can't understand how using a gift card to try the PVT is the same as defrauding someone. You're drawing a lot of assumptions just from one act a person does. You can look back at any human being's life and I'm sure you'll find numerous times that the person hasn't been perfect.
If a nurse holds different beliefs does it mean they are less honorable or have less integrity then their peers?
It's a business decision, by using a gift card you ensure that don't pay for something that isn't needed.
If you don't need it, don't enter the transaction.
If you use the $5 gift card to pay for a $200 transaction that's fraud. Pure and simple.
If you don't need it, don't enter the transaction.
If you use the $5 gift card to pay for a $200 transaction that's fraud. Pure and simple.
The transaction isn't going through. It's a computer program that's designed to prevent people who have passed from registering. Pearson Vue likely activates this when they send the result to the NCSBN. It's an automated system, you're not stealing $200 by not using a card with funds.
How is it pure and simple, why is it considered "fraud"? If the majority of people tried the PVT using a card with insufficient funds are they all immoral and undeserving of a license? Would all of these nurses endanger patients, pocket meds, or falsify documentation?
FlyingScot, RN
2,016 Posts
Sometimes it's hard to tell if it's good sarcastic or nasty sarcastic. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt!