Good grief. America's Frontline Doctors, a group of quacks who claim to know more than actual experts are pushing the use of ineffective parasite med to prevent and or treat COVID.
On a personal note, my hubby works for a farm store and has overheard customers explaining to each other how to dose animal wormer for people. This is in a community that is anti-mask, anti-vaccine, let's just all get infected. Up until, you know, they need hospitalization .
Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
On 8/30/2021 at 5:27 AM, nursej22 said:
True, it is approved for parasite treatment. And if you go to the website for America's Frontline Doctors, they have a link to for an online consult who will charge you $90 for a consult, and then allow you to order the drug of your choice (HCQ or Ivermectin) for another charge. Easy peasy. And in my sarcasm voice, that seems all above board and prudent medical practice.
I don't understand how a drug that is designed to treat parasites could be remotely effective against a virus. I mean the method of action is completely different
Seriously!!! How sad that evidently even “nurses” can’t seem to have a educated discussion about Covid, the vaccine, or the experimental treatments and/or drugs (either new or established) that are being used. Instead a lot of name calling, misguided self righteousness, group think, and arrogant statements. Where’s the critical thinking, healthy amounts of skepticism and curiosity and problem solving? If we are going to uphold the trust of our patients, and still have pride in ourselves as nurses. I think at least for starters we should put any information or research we want to share, as well as any public statements we make through the Venn Diagram model. If it passes that then at least, at the very least our premise or statement is mostly logical. Next we must check our emotions and bias at the door. Realistically the likelihood that one side is completely right and the other is completely wrong (using current social attitudes) is extremely unlikely. So; Humble pie tastes horrible, irony’s only funny from the outside, and Karma is a b#%!&?. One last thing “ It is the mark of an Educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it” Aristotle
Who has the most to gain from Ivermectin being used on a grand scale to treat Covid-19? Merck, the manufacturer.
Merck has stated categorically that the clinical studies conducted thus far have not provided good evidence that their product is effective in treating Covid-19 and that they find the lack of safety data "concerning."
I believe there is a large study going on in the UK. Hopefully will provide good data.
Pud Med Gov is doing a study on it, there could be promise in it but it needs to be further studied. That is not quacks.
What "study"? Pub Med is just a central clearinghouse for medical and scientific papers. It is provided as a public service, giving access to a database of medical journals and related publications. It does not conduct clinical trials of medications or do actual research studies if that is what you are stating.
What I don’t understand is why these people are freaking out over something with over 99% survival rate for most populations.
I find this comment so off-putting, especially by someone who is theoretically FMP and PMHNP certified. If you're employed in either of those capacities, you've seen the long term fall out of COVID.
I don't think people are "freaking out" over the mortality rate. I think they're hoping to avoid lasting lung damage with new chronic diagnoses, heart damage with new chronic diagnoses, kidney failure with associated new diagnoses, strokes, clots, the sensation of drowning in their own lungs, weeks of air hunger, months on supplemental oxygen, losing the ability to smell, months of food tasting like battery acid, brain fog, the inability to remember words and complete sentences, chronic debilitating fatigue, severe headaches, PTSD, depression, anxiety, lasting changes noted on brain scans, potentially low sperm count and male fertility issues, losing loved ones in a horrendous and separated way, etc. People don't want their young children exposed to these possibilities. People don't want their older relatives dying just because they're old.
The number of patients experiencing long hauler symptoms is significant. Many COVID-is-a-hoax folks ask "How can we say the damage is permanent on a novel virus?" All you should need to do is ask yourself as a provider how often areas of brain atrophy reverse themselves, or how often scarred, fibrous lungs suddenly turn healthy again.
It is so dismissive at this point, knowing what we clinically know, to imply that people shouldn't have concerns about COVID since they're likely to live.
Additionally, not all people fall into the category of likely to survive. One of my local mom friends with children ranging from toddlerhood to high school has leukemia and absolutely no immune system right now. Combined with her comorbidities, COVID would almost certainly be a death sentence. Let's not accuse people of "freaking out" because they'd like to see their children grow up. It's really just tacky.
It amazes me how people are so quick to call others quacks before doing their own research. Just so you know Ivermectin is nothing new. It's been around for decades and in fact won the Nobel Prize for medicine in 2015 and is one of WHO's list of essential medicines. As with many medication there is a human form and an animal form. People are so quick to say follow the science but explain this science. Israel is one of the most vaccinated county on the planet yet numbers continues to rise. India is one of the least and treats with ivermectin and their numbers are significantly lower.
Please people stop being spoon fed information and do your own research. Everything that goes against this new be all end all injection cannot be conspiracy. It's in fact scary how little anyone questions anything anymore.
And please don't get it twisted I'm not anti-vax or anti science I'm anti-ignorance. I just study data and facts.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
7 minutes ago, sunshinej1981 said:
It amazes me how people are so quick to call others quacks before doing their own research. Just so you know Ivermectin is nothing new. It's been around for decades and in fact won the Nobel Prize for medicine in 2015 and is one of WHO's list of essential medicines. As with many medication there is a human form and an animal form. People are so quick to say follow the science but explain this science. Israel is one of the most vaccinated county on the planet yet numbers continues to rise. India is one of the least and treats with ivermectin and their numbers are significantly lower.
Please people stop being spoon fed information and do your own research. Everything that goes against this new be all end all injection cannot be conspiracy. It's in fact scary how little anyone questions anything anymore.
And please don't get it twisted I'm not anti-vax or anti science I'm anti-ignorance. I just study data and facts.
Welcome to AN.
It's too bad that you commented on the general tone or content without familiarizing yourself with either in this thread.
Welcome to the conversation and AN, @sunshinej1981.
I don't believe anyone on this thread suggested that doctors are prescribing horse de-wormer. However, ivermectin has not been shown to be effective in treating COVID19, and yet at least 3 groups of medical people are recommending it off label. Even the manufacturer, Merck, is discouraging its use for COVID19.
Do you not think it's suspicious that a groups of doctors with a financial stake in prescribing and dispensing a drug for an off-label use?
Do you hear any of the pro-ivermectin doctors telling people not to use the livestock formulation? In a quick perusal of three of the groups, only one cautions against using the livestock version.
And you think we should use India as a guide to managing this pandemic?
No, I do not find it suspicious at all. Medications are used for off label usage all the time. What makes this so different when both patients and providers are having success? What is wrong with using India as a guide? Aren't those lives worth saving? Shouldn't we be hopeful and happy when we see and hear of treatment that works?
I don't understand why so many are so quick to accept one and not the other even when people are recovering. Ivermectin has been around for decades vs something that just came out for which we are still awaiting the long term verdict on. It seems as if the moral compass for medical professionals have shifted so drastically and I'm baffled trying to figure out why. The focus seems to be on one thing and one thing only, completely disregarding that there may be other alternative options which may work better. As a nurse it is quite frightening to see this thing unfolding.
It is not for me to say whether or not people should be using livestock medication for their own personal usage because believe it or not people have been doing that well before covid.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
14 minutes ago, sunshinej1981 said:
It is not for me to say whether or not people should be using livestock medication for their own personal usage because believe it or not people have been doing that well before covid
Responsible health professionals most certainly should actively discourage people from self dosing with veterinary medication. Sympathizing with and accepting such dangerous behaviors is not recommended.
Even if ivermectin doesn't cure covid, I wonder what could be long term side effects on humans?? Liver disease? Renal failure? How about Swiss cheese brain holes?
Be curious about those folks' health in 7 or 8 yrs.
Tenebrae, BSN, RN
2,021 Posts
I don't understand how a drug that is designed to treat parasites could be remotely effective against a virus. I mean the method of action is completely different