President Biden thread

6 hours ago, Beerman said:

He once said that the buck stops with him.  But his actions say otherwise.

When he doesn't follow the advice that at least some of the military leaders gave him, and the withdrawal becomes a mess, and then he says he never got said advice, he really isn't living up to that statement, is he?

Yes.  He's doing his own thing and saying the buck stops with him, and not the generals.  He went his own way following the timeline Trump established.  

That the generals contradicted him doesn't mean the buck doesn't stop with Biden.

Again, ultimately he's standing by his decision to withdraw, and the public is behind that, but not the mess that happened the lives lost.  Big lose.

The military brass and members of congress have for over 20 years failed us with disregard the the thousands of soldiers lost and we'd be there for years to come losing lives even if it's "only 2,500 troops and that's sustainable".   They failed America to the tune of trillions and lives lost.   The same military that killed 10 members of one man's family.

I don't blame Trump and Biden for getting us out.  I'm glad they did.  Sorry it was a disaster and I'm ashamed of the civilians lost and dejected over the suicide bomber, but still glad we're out.

I think Biden understood it would be a mess.  He didn't know there would be a suicide bomber, but he was going to take a hit for a messy withdrawal.  He underestimated the mess it would be with the quick unchallenged takeover of Kabul.

I also think he didn't know there would be a congressional hearing of the generals and why he lied about some of the unfolding of their meetings is just a cover up.

43 minutes ago, Beerman said:

I think I'll go with the qualifications and expertise of our top military brass over yours.

And, why didn't Biden offer that explanation?  Or, do you really believe he just didn't recall getting that advice? 

No matter what he did it wouldn't have worked as so many years proved. The Afghan soldiers just vanished, because like most, they were there for American money as the president proved. He took the money and ran. 

It's why Afghanistan is the way it is. Corruption from top to bottom! And as always, corrupt people are COWARDS! 

Remember trump? Come to capital and he left his own people to suffer the consequences! 

You know it Beerman, republicans are cowardly! You are always trying to manipulate rules and lying to your people. You tell them one thing and you do the opposite. Ted Cruz running away to Mexico. You people can never be men and admit what you do. Lies, lies and more lies! That's your MO! 

It's the reason you folks are such hypocrites! I have honestly never trusted a trumpista, ever, when I think about it! All the people I know who support him have always raised red flags even before trump came on the scene. Always were liars and shady characters! 

Biden at least accepts his faults and raises his hand. The only thing I have agreed with so far in his agenda is the Afghanistan withdrawal. For me from day one, it would have been mandatory vaccines. Especially to trumpistas who are mostly antivaxxers and hypocrites! I would criminalize anyone caught with a fake vaccine card. Fines up the wazoo! You cannot trust anyone who cannot differentiate between trump and a decent person! 

And I certainly don't value their opinions about anything! 

There's going to be disagreement about the withdrawal, especially in this divided hyperpartisan world. Not surprisingly, I was not in favor of invading Afghanistan 20 years ago and I am glad that our troops are out. 

Quote

Milley said the United States would have been “going to war again with the Taliban” had it stayed beyond Sept. 1.
The “unanimous” recommendation that Biden claimed his generals gave him to withdraw from Afghanistan by the end of August came only Aug. 25, Milley also told senators.
That was 10 days after the fall of Kabul, as Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) pointed out, noting he was “shocked that your advice wasn’t sought until August 25.”
Both Milley and U.S. Central Command commander Gen. Kenneth F. McKenzie Jr. testified that they had personally believed that the military should keep a contingent of at least 2,500 U.S. troops on the ground. Noting that, Cotton said he could “only conclude that your advice about staying in Afghanistan was rejected.”
In later questioning, Milley noted that the unanimous advice the generals gave Biden on Aug. 25 was motivated by the conviction that “the risk to mission and the risk to force and most importantly, the risk to American citizens who are remaining, that was going to go up, now down, on the first of September.”
He later added: “On the first of September, we were going to go to war again with the Taliban. Of that, there was no doubt, and we were already … in conflict with ISIS,” he said, referring to the Islamic State militant group.
“My advice is, don’t put specific dates” on withdrawals, Milley said, noting that two presidents in a row had made that mistake. “Make things conditions-based.”
Austin also acknowledged that the military, despite all the contingency scenarios it had planned for, “certainly did not plan against the collapse of the [Afghan] government in 11 days.”

If the biggest discussion is about whether Biden lied about the advice then there's really nothing to talk about. I'd rather talk about the advice and how the military make those recommendations that are so deeply flawed.  How could the military be in Afghanistan and not have clue one that the government was going to snub the US negotiated agreement with the Taliban and refuse to help? 

By John Wagner, Eugene Scott, Karoun Demirjian, Alex Horton and Felicia Sonmez

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/28/milley-hearing-live-updates/

On 9/30/2021 at 4:32 PM, Cclm said:

Actually I didn't like him at first. Thought he was a lying creep. However I learned he was being misrepresented in several ways at  several times. 

All politicians lie. It's a given. I wouldn't even consider it a big deal except this one with Biden is pretty big! 

Otherwise I wouldn't even mention it but I have to call out the hypocrisy.  

How could it be anything else when our Secretary of State Pompeo takes a photo op with the Taliban?  What kind of message does that send to the Afghan army? 

19 hours ago, Tweety said:

100% without a doubt Trump is the worst liar.  I think we only scratched the surface of his lies.

However, Trump is not President and I don't want to talk about him.

But yes, the military dropped a bombshell when they say they advised Biden to stay in Afghanistan and he earlier said no one did.  

Ultimately he has over and over defended the withdrawal as the right thing to do and taken responsibility for it saying "the buck stops with me".  

 

The buck didn't end with him. The buck already stopped. It was already in the plans to withdraw from Afghanistan.  The issue isn't pulling the troops, the issue is how he botched it, didn't listen to his advisors or didn't comprehend and got  Americans, civilians and children killed. 

55 minutes ago, Cclm said:

The buck didn't end with him. The buck already stopped. It was already in the plans to withdraw from Afghanistan.  The issue isn't pulling the troops, the issue is how he botched it, didn't listen to his advisors or didn't comprehend and got  Americans, civilians and children killed. 

 

And somehow you expected our withdrawal to be smooth sailing?  It was too late to ever have a less awful escape.  The Taliban was given 8 months notice to get ready!  What could we have done since they already had carte blanche to move anywhere they wanted to send their men, amass weapon, strategize, etc.  It's easy to criticize but let's hear YOUR ideas for a less chaotic withdrawal.  In a short time, nobody will remember the chaos; they will only express gratitude that we are finally out,,,,just like when we left Vietnam.  The pictures were awful of people being rescued from the tops of buildings but finally, we were out.  How quickly we forgot that we can lose a war.

1 hour ago, Cclm said:

The buck didn't end with him. The buck already stopped. It was already in the plans to withdraw from Afghanistan.  The issue isn't pulling the troops, the issue is how he botched it, didn't listen to his advisors or didn't comprehend and got  Americans, civilians and children killed. 

 

Apparently you have believed the propaganda that the messy exit from the 20 year war was more related to the past 8 months of political leadership than it was the related to the 20 years of failure in Afghanistan.  The top military leadership disagrees with you. 

The issue is that the the situation was a mess when Biden inherited it. Your new found concern about Afghanistan planning suggest that you weren't paying much attention prior to Biden's inauguration. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/trump-leaving-biden-mess-afghanistan/617229/

8 hours ago, Beerman said:

I think I'll go with the qualifications and expertise of our top military brass over yours.

And, why didn't Biden offer that explanation?  Or, do you really believe he just didn't recall getting that advice? 

So why are you agreeing with their recommendation, I don't find whether Biden remembered the conversation correctly (quite possibly did not) as interesting as  what the best decision should be.

1 hour ago, Cclm said:

The buck didn't end with him. The buck already stopped. It was already in the plans to withdraw from Afghanistan.  The issue isn't pulling the troops, the issue is how he botched it, didn't listen to his advisors or didn't comprehend and got  Americans, civilians and children killed. 

 

 If the issue is "how he botched it", how do you think he botched it?  I'm not saying I disagree that their were failings in the process, I just find the back and forth of who's at fault without a discussion of why to be a bit lame.  

18 minutes ago, subee said:

And somehow you expected our withdrawal to be smooth sailing?  It was too late to ever have a less awful escape.  The Taliban was given 8 months notice to get ready!  What could we have done since they already had carte blanche to move anywhere they wanted to send their men, my amass weapon, strategize, etc.  It's easy to criticize but let's hear YOUR ideas for a less chaotic withdrawal.  In a short time, nobody will remember the chaos; they will only express gratitude that we are finally out,,,,just like when we left Vietnam.  The pictures were awful of people being rescued from the tops of buildings but finally, we were out.  How quickly we forgot that we can lose a war.

My ideas? How about my 12 year old son. "Do not pull the military before the civilians and allies". 

My father is a Vietnam Veteran and the 2 are not comparable. Remember the helicopters being dumped into the ocean? Yeah. So the VC wasn't able to utilize them. The VC are very different than the Taliban. When the war ended, the VC pretty much did too. Try again... 

 

39 minutes ago, Cclm said:

My ideas? How about my 12 year old son. "Do not pull the military before the civilians and allies". 

My father is a Vietnam Veteran and the 2 are not comparable. Remember the helicopters being dumped into the ocean? Yeah. So the VC wasn't able to utilize them. The VC are very different than the Taliban. When the war ended, the VC pretty much did too. Try again...

The military leadership compared the two ...

What did it mean when Secretary of Defense Esper told the public that there was "prudent planning" for the withdrawal of troops following the negotiations with the Taliban? What did it mean when the last acting secretary of defense of the Trump administration said that Trump didn't intend to withdraw all American troops?

Quote

In a conversation this week with Defense One, Miller revealed that while serving as the top counterterrorism official on the National Security Council in 2019, he commissioned a wargame that determined that the United States could continue to conduct counterterrorism in Afghanistan with just 800 American military personnel on the ground. And by the end of 2020, when he was acting defense secretary, Miller asserted, many Trump administration officials expected that the United States would be able to broker a new shared government in Afghanistan composed primarily of Taliban officials. The new government would then permit U.S. forces to remain in country to support the Afghan military and fight terrorist elements.