President Biden thread

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Apparently you have believed the propaganda that the messy exit from the 20 year war was more related to the past 8 months of political leadership than it was the related to the 20 years of failure in Afghanistan.  The top military leadership disagrees with you. 

The issue is that the the situation was a mess when Biden inherited it. Your new found concern about Afghanistan planning suggest that you weren't paying much attention prior to Biden's inauguration. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/trump-leaving-biden-mess-afghanistan/617229/

 

The withdrawal was under Biden, the withdrawal was planned by Biden. The withdrawal happened without any consideration from Trump. 

Biden did this. It's okay to acknowledge your president made a mistake, criticizing him doesn't mean you are praising Trump. Biden is the president. Focus on him. Trump is not so get over please. 

10 hours ago, Tweety said:

Yes.  He's doing his own thing and saying the buck stops with him, and not the generals.  He went his own way following the timeline Trump established.  

That the generals contradicted him doesn't mean the buck doesn't stop with Biden.

Again, ultimately he's standing by his decision to withdraw, and the public is behind that, but not the mess that happened the lives lost.  Big lose.

The decision to withdrawal is not the issue. Keep deflecting. 

9 hours ago, Curious1997 said:

No matter what he did it wouldn't have worked as so many years proved. The Afghan soldiers just vanished, because like most, they were there for American money as the president proved. He took the money and ran. 

It's why Afghanistan is the way it is. Corruption from top to bottom! And as always, corrupt people are COWARDS! 

Remember trump? Come to capital and he left his own people to suffer the consequences! 

You know it Beerman, republicans are cowardly! You are always trying to manipulate rules and lying to your people. You tell them one thing and you do the opposite. Ted Cruz running away to Mexico. You people can never be men and admit what you do. Lies, lies and more lies! That's your MO! 

It's the reason you folks are such hypocrites! I have honestly never trusted a trumpista, ever, when I think about it! All the people I know who support him have always raised red flags even before trump came on the scene. Always were liars and shady characters! 

Biden at least accepts his faults and raises his hand. The only thing I have agreed with so far in his agenda is the Afghanistan withdrawal. For me from day one, it would have been mandatory vaccines. Especially to trumpistas who are mostly antivaxxers and hypocrites! I would criminalize anyone caught with a fake vaccine card. Fines up the wazoo! You cannot trust anyone who cannot differentiate between trump and a decent person! 

And I certainly don't value their opinions about anything! 

You litterally started a thread in which I cannot find or I would have quoted it, where you said white republican women deserve seismic, misogyny and even rape because of their voting choices. 

Victim blaming women for rape. Apparently it's okay if you are a women who voted republican to be blamed because they deserve it. . You need to take several seats. 

Just now, Cclm said:

You litterally started a thread in which I cannot find or I would have quoted it, where you said white republican women deserve sexism , misogyny and even rape because of their voting choices. If I could find it I would report because that's not free speech. 

Victim blaming women for rape. Apparently it's okay if you are a women who voted republican to be blamed because they deserve it. . You need to take several seats. 

22 minutes ago, Cclm said:

The withdrawal was under Biden, the withdrawal was planned by Biden. The withdrawal happened without any consideration from Trump. 

Biden did this. It's okay to acknowledge your president made a mistake, criticizing him doesn't mean you are praising Trump. Biden is the president. Focus on him. Trump is not so get over please. 

The decision to withdrawal is not the issue. Keep deflecting. 

The withdrawal was negotiated by the previous president.  I suspect that you are correct, given what Miller said...Trump never intended to fully withdraw from Afghanistan...that eventuality apparently wasn't under consideration by Trump even though that's what he and his staff told us at the time.  

Yes. Biden did what 3 presidents before him were not able to do, he fully withdrew American military from Afghanistan.  I don't view that as a mistake. The withdrawal didn't go very smoothly and that makes me wonder about the ability of the military and state department to plan and execute those type orders.  

You believe that the issue is that Biden is a liar.  You are welcome to continue to beat that dead horse.

2 hours ago, Cclm said:

 

It's confusing when you attach your reply to my post.  Oh yeah, what kind of psycho takes directions from Steve Miller?  

51 minutes ago, Cclm said:

You litterally started a thread in which I cannot find or I would have quoted it, where you said white republican women deserve seismic, misogyny and even rape because of their voting choices. 

Victim blaming women for rape. Apparently it's okay if you are a women who voted republican to be blamed because they deserve it. . You need to take several seats. 

 

Please show me where the above was said on this thread.

1 hour ago, subee said:

It's confusing when you attach your reply to my post.  Oh yeah, what kind of psycho takes directions from Steve Miller?  

Please show me where the above was said on this thread.

It was a separate thread with the title of something like..."I'm going to get allot of trouble for this" or something like that. I can't seem to find it. Either he or the moderator removed it. 

I should have posted it when I found it. 

See what he says. 

2 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

The withdrawal was negotiated by the previous president.  I suspect that you are correct, given what Miller said...Trump never intended to fully withdraw from Afghanistan...that eventuality apparently wasn't under consideration by Trump even though that's what he and his staff told us at the time.  

Yes. Biden did what 3 presidents before him were not able to do, he fully withdrew American military from Afghanistan.  I don't view that as a mistake. The withdrawal didn't go very smoothly and that makes me wonder about the ability of the military and state department to plan and execute those type orders.  

You believe that the issue is that Biden is a liar.  You are welcome to continue to beat that dead horse.

 

Even if "Trump never intended to withdrawal". He's not the president at the time of withdrawal. Biden didn't normally withdrawal and overcome anything any president tried to do or otherwise. 

He was responsible for how it went down. He made the plans or lack there of. 

43 minutes ago, Cclm said:

Even if "Trump never intended to withdrawal". He's not the president at the time of withdrawal. Biden didn't normally withdrawal and overcome anything any president tried to do or otherwise. 

He was responsible for how it went down. He made the plans or lack there of. 

So you aren't interested in any other context. That's pretty evident.  Now that you've decided that Biden just screwed it all up what is there to talk about? Apparently there's no need to examine anything that occurred before January 20, 2021 relative to the Afghanistan troop withdrawal, eh? 

OK.  You can just skip the part where the military and Congress and the press will examine every aspect of what happened and why, over the next month's and years.  You are welcome to skip our discussions of the investigations into how Trump authored this final exodus out of the middle east. Or the failures of the state department.  There's so much that we don't know yet about the mischief that Trump's sycophants engaged in during the last year of his troubled and incompetent presidency. 

25 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

So you aren't interested in any other context. That's pretty evident.  Now that you've decided that Biden just screwED it all up what is there to talk about? ...

[...]

And this is different than the majority of members participating in these discussions how. 

14 minutes ago, chare said:

And this is different than the majority of members participating in these discussions how. 

I don't know, I haven't made a comparative statement about members, in that context.  

Do you believe that the president personally plans and then executes the military objectives surrounding a withdrawal? I think that the military gives their assessments and the state department give their assessments and then those departments assemble the resources and develop the logistics to carry out the objectives when a civilian leadership decision is reached.  I think that the president certainly is accountable for the overall success of that American team effort, but he trusted the details of that prudent planning to those people in the state department and military.  Do you think that's how it would happen?

7 hours ago, Cclm said:

The buck didn't end with him. The buck already stopped. It was already in the plans to withdraw from Afghanistan.  The issue isn't pulling the troops, the issue is how he botched it, didn't listen to his advisors or didn't comprehend and got  Americans, civilians and children killed. 

 

I guess we feel differently what the "buck stop here" means.   To me it means he made the final decision.  

But I won't worry that we disagree on semantics.  Because ultimately yes people got killed.  

I agree with you there were plans already in place to withdraw and Biden stuck to the timeline that Trump committed to.

I have to agree with Muno.  What would have happened to the 2,500 remaining troops after the Taliban marched into the city that those generals wanted to stay?  They would have been targets, and the military would have said "we need more troops" which is what we did for 20 years. 

I understand that people that don't support Biden would harp on the disaster and investigate.   I understand that and we can't sugar coat the mess.  

51 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

1 hour ago, chare said:

And this is different than the majority of members participating in these discussions how. 

I don't know, I haven't made a comparative statement about members, in that context.  

[...]

No, but you made a direct statement regarding this members.  A statement in which you specifically stated that he or she wasn't interested in any other context.  This was the context on which I posed my question.

12 minutes ago, chare said:

No, but you made a direct statement regarding this members.  A statement in which you specifically stated that he or she wasn't interested in any other context.  This was the context on which I posed my question.

OK.

My impression is that the specific member is not really interested in discussion of the nuances of what happened in Afghanistan, preferring to focus upon the opinion that Biden lied and messed up the withdrawal. That's not a comparison to anyone else.  

My point is that once we acknowledge that she believes that Biden lied and screwed it up, there are other things to discuss.  She can beat that dead horse but to what end?