Partial Birth Abortions--NOT an abortion debate

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I just have a general question, and wonder if someone could educate me...this is a true curiosity question.

When I first heard of this procedure years ago, I really and truly thought it was a medical myth or something practices in a third-world country.

I can think of many truly, medical reasons where a mother cannot continue a pregnancy and it would put her life at risk, but I cannot think of a single reason of why a c-section, artificial labor induction...cannot take place, and why a baby would have to be destroyed while half-way out of the womb...why couldn't the baby be treated as any other preemie and let nature (or God), make the decision?

Can anyone share some light? I have tried to find the reasons behind this (and as of the recent USSC decision, it's now illegal) online and can't find any.

Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.

I feel very strongly that this is a decision that needs to stay between a woman and her practitioner.

I would like to think I would know what I would do when faced with a situation such as those that occur to cause abortions, but I don't. I don't know if I could carry a child for months, knowing that it was going to die immediately after birth. Or that I might have to get a hysterectomy because of a non-viable pregnancy.

These are not easy procedures, physically or emotionally and typically they are not entered into lightly. By far, if someone wants to terminate, it is much easier to do so earlier. D&Xs are not anywhere close to being the majority of termination procedures.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
I can give a real-life example. My best friend was pregnant at the same time as her husband's coworker, and both ladies had their amnios done at the same time. The coworker's results came back bad: multiple congenital defects with indications of severe retardation. The docs told the parents it was their choice but to continue with the pregnancy and delivery would mean a very hard life for both them and the baby. They recommended termination. Even though it was likely the baby would die at birth because of the gestational age, the parents did not want to take a chance on survival.

It's not an easy decision to make, but to let nature decide after an induction would be to risk the very thing the parents are trying to avoid: survival of a baby that they cannot take care of.

TazziRN: Although I used to give anesthesia for many first trimesters many years ago (think those doctors are too afraid to do them now), I never saw a late termination and have often wondered why they were done since its the 2nd trimester that's the most physiologically demanding for the mother. But one question, isn't an amnio done early in the pregnancy? Why would a mother request a 3rd trimester abortion on the basis of an amnio? Thanks for giving us some background in this procedure.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I have a cousin who was a OB doc for 25+ years, he told me that he has NEVER seen a medically necessary late term abortion. When Hitler did this, it was genocide, when a woman does this it is her "Right to Choice"?

Up Vote Up Vote ×
While I'm sure we all agree that this is an awful procedure (regardless of your thoughts as to whether it should be legal or not), I'm pretty sure that info from a site like "priestsforlife" that keeps being referenced is not the most MEDICALLY unbiased. Regardless of ones beliefs, I find it problematic when healthcare is legislated by a bunch of stuffy old men who a) are not doctors, and b) will never be pregnant. Please. Didn't we have enough when that senator medically "diagnosed" Teri Shiavo from a video, and determined that she was not in a vegatative state? As I said, REGARDLESS of your political postition, wouldn't you rather have these decisions made by medical professionals?

Sorry about that :chair: - I didn't go to priestsforlife on purpose (I'm not even Catholic) but was looking for testimony and it came up on that site . . . .. . still and all the testimony before the judiciary committee is still the testimony.

What about medical professionals who are prolife? Would you want your medical decisions made only by them.

steph

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in OB, M/S, HH, Medical Imaging RN.
A D&X is often "necessary" for the mother who does not want to undergo major abdominal surgery, which is what a c/s is. A primary c/s greatly increases chances of needing a c-section with future pregnancies-repeat c/s can lead to an accreta which is life threatening. Any c/s poses higher risk of hemorrhage and subsequent hystorectomy, infection, reaction to anesthetics/suture material, DVT, scarring, etc

Likewise lady partsl deliveries are not w/o risk. I worked L&D for 12 years and don't recall one single incidence of a patient having a life threatening problem related to a c/s. I do recall several maternal deaths due to a lady partsl delivery.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
TazziRN: Although I used to give anesthesia for many first trimesters many years ago (think those doctors are too afraid to do them now), I never saw a late termination and have often wondered why they were done since its the 2nd trimester that's the most physiologically demanding for the mother. But one question, isn't an amnio done early in the pregnancy? Why would a mother request a 3rd trimester abortion on the basis of an amnio? Thanks for giving us some background in this procedure.

Amnios are usually done between 18-20 weeks and a decision is encouraged by 22 weeks but sometimes parents make it later. It's not an easy decision to make, and not everyone can make it in just a few days.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in High Risk In Patient OB/GYN.
Likewise lady partsl deliveries are not w/o risk. I worked L&D for 12 years and don't recall one single incidence of a patient having a life threatening problem related to a c/s. I do recall several maternal deaths due to a lady partsl delivery.

I'm sure you're not trying to imply that an NSVD is just as risky (or less so) than a c-section. No one said a vag delivery was without risks. But regardless of your personal experiences, medical statistics prove that a c/s carries a higher mortality and complication rate than does a lady partsl birth.

And on a baby that's either dead or going to die soon after birth?

subee-Aside from amnios, sonos are getting much better and more widely used. Serious cardiac (and other) defects are being recognized anywhere from 1st trimester to 3rd. Many defects are not so apparent in the earlier sonograms, but may show up clearly during a routine 18 oe 22 week Bio Physical Profile.

Also, many women opt not to have an amnio or CVS due to the risks it poses, and some things therefore cannot be diagnosed as early as one would have hoped.

It's not like there's some wave of women who wake up at 34wks gestation and say "Hmm...I don't think I wanna be pregnant anymore! I'll think I'll have a PBA!" and call their doctors.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

OK Let me say it agian...... IF ONE IS GOING TO HAVE SEX WHICH COULD GET HER PREGNANT NO MATTER WHAT, THEN THEY NEED TO BE READY TO DEAL WITH ANYTHING THAT MAY BE A RESULT..... PREGNANCY, DISABLED CHILD, C/S, MATERNAL DEATH, ANYTHING!!! If you are mature enough to have sex or you want to be pregnant and get pregnant, you need to be responsibe and deal with what may come and if you can't THEN DON"T HAVE SEX OR GET PREGNANT.... And as far as the people who will say well you have never been in the situation.... Guess what I have and I have a 3 yr old boy that takes every ounce of my energy to care for as a single mom..... And when I was told his diagnosis I was appalled by the thought of killing him cause he wasn't perfect!!! Killing a child to take the easy way out is unacceptable to me!!! Oh and one more thing my brother was said to have DS when my mom had his Amnio at 20 weeks, my mom did not decide to abort him.... today he is 18 years old and has NO Downs!!!! What if she had killed him??

Up Vote Up Vote ×
OK Let me say it agian...... IF ONE IS GOING TO HAVE SEX WHICH COULD GET HER PREGNANT NO MATTER WHAT, THEN THEY NEED TO BE READY TO DEAL WITH ANYTHING THAT MAY BE A RESULT..... PREGNANCY, DISABLED CHILD, C/S, MATERNAL DEATH, ANYTHING!!! If you are mature enough to have sex or you want to be pregnant and get pregnant, you need to be responsibe and deal with what may come and if you can't THEN DON"T HAVE SEX OR GET PREGNANT.... And as far as the people who will say well you have never been in the situation.... Guess what I have and I have a 3 yr old boy that takes every ounce of my energy to care for as a single mom..... And when I was told his diagnosis I was appalled by the thought of killing him cause he wasn't perfect!!! Killing a child to take the easy way out is unacceptable to me!!! Oh and one more thing my brother was said to have DS when my mom had his Amnio at 20 weeks, my mom did not decide to abort him.... today he is 18 years old and has NO Downs!!!! What if she had killed him??

Down, Giant Heart! Re-read the title of the post and the request from the mod on the first page. This is NOT a debate about whether abortion is right or wrong.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

ummm ok I'm sorry!!!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in nursery, L and D.

I made my decision with my last pregnancy. If we where 100% sure that the baby was going to be anacephalitic, or severely hydrocephalic, then we would induce at the point we were 100% sure, or c-sec. I can't see how the D&X is any safer than these alternatives. I don't think they are done enough (thank goodness) to really know the risk of scarring, bleeding, infection, etc. So I would chose what had been done enough to really know the risk, and let my baby die naturally. Thankfully, it was needless worrying and I now have a health 3 y/o. But I don't walk in everyones shoes, so I can't make this desicion for the world. I just can't think of any reason, personally, where I would ever decide to do this. I have seen a 17 weeker last for hours, so its not like I didn't know what could happen, either. If they baby is beyond the point where it wouldn't need resusitation, and it would live, the D&X shouldn't be done, period. Make the baby a BUFA if you want, at that point, if you don't want the job.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU, telemetry, LTAC.

I think there are some women who may have cardiac conditions such that they couldn't undergo the hemodynamics of carrying a baby to term and giving birth. If the condition is not known about beforehand, I could see how an abortion could be necessary for the mother.

However, I'm fairly clueless on the details and I haven't done the research. That one link destroyed my appetite already today.

Edit: Oh yeah, and it used to take 6 weeks to get amnio results, by which time you'd be quite a bit farther along than when the sample was taken.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment