Partial Birth Abortions--NOT an abortion debate

ktwlpn, LPN · Apr 18, 2007

I think that ending the babies life quickly before it is born is more humane then letting it be born and left to die slowly with out intervention...I have a problem with the amount of healthcare resources involved in the care of some of the preemies,too-and the heartache the parents go through is horrible....Either way it's a very personal and difficult decision-one that is best kept out of the goverment's hands,IMO

TazziRN, RN · Apr 18, 2007

I can give a real-life example. My best friend was pregnant at the same time as her husband's coworker, and both ladies had their amnios done at the same time. The coworker's results came back bad: multiple congenital defects with indications of severe retardation. The docs told the parents it was their choice but to continue with the pregnancy and delivery would mean a very hard life for both them and the baby. They recommended termination. Even though it was likely the baby would die at birth because of the gestational age, the parents did not want to take a chance on survival.

It's not an easy decision to make, but to let nature decide after an induction would be to risk the very thing the parents are trying to avoid: survival of a baby that they cannot take care of.

rnin02 · Apr 18, 2007

I just have a general question, and wonder if someone could educate me...this is a true curiosity question.
When I first heard of this procedure years ago, I really and truly thought it was a medical myth or something practices in a third-world country.
I can think of many truly, medical reasons where a mother cannot continue a pregnancy and it would put her life at risk, but I cannot think of a single reason of why a c-section, artificial labor induction...cannot take place, and why a baby would have to be destroyed while half-way out of the womb...why couldn't the baby be treated as any other preemie and let nature (or God), make the decision?
Can anyone share some light? I have tried to find the reasons behind this (and as of the recent USSC decision, it's now illegal) online and can't find any.

I've been reading up on this today, from what I can gather from my reading (is it okay to post links here? you can just PM if you want the links to what I read) it seems that the doctors prefer this method because it has less chance of complications to the mother. Less risk of infections, etc, if they do an "intact D&E" vs c/s or well, not intact D&E's, can't find the correct name for that. What I also read gave 3 examples where inducing was not a good option: placenta previa, placenta accreta, and chorioamnionitis. What I couldn't find was a medical reason that the mother HAD to have an abortion and it HAD to be a partial birth abortion. This I did find:

A select panel convened by ACOG could identify no circumstances under which [intact D&X] . . . would be the only option to save the life or preserve the health of the woman. An intact D&X, however, may be the best or most appropriate procedure in a particular circumstance to save the life or preserve the health of a woman, and only the doctor, in consultation with the patient, based on the woman's particular circumstances can make this decision. The potential exists that legislation prohibiting specific medical practices, such as intact D&X, may outlaw techniques that are critical to the lives and health of American women.

Carhart J.A. 975-976 (second emphasis added).

So, I still feel kind of clueless myself.

kstec, LPN · Apr 18, 2007

From what I understand they have to leave half of the baby inside the mother in order for it not to be considered murder. Because of my own personal beliefs I did some research a while ago and this was what I found. If the whole baby is delivered and then is deprived of medical treatment than it is murder, if only half is able to come out and killed than it is considered a partial birth abortion. Don't look into how it's done to much because you'll vomit.

Psqrd · Apr 18, 2007

From what I understand they have to leave half of the baby inside the mother in order for it not to be considered murder. Because of my own personal beliefs I did some research a while ago and this was what I found. If the whole baby is delivered and then is deprived of medical treatment than it is murder, if only half is able to come out and killed than it is considered a partial birth abortion. Don't look into how it's done to much because you'll vomit.

I agree on the vomit part...I am in my OB rotation for second semester of an ADN and we learned about them just a few weeks ago in lecture. Now don't get me wrong I believe in a womans right to choose is important but the descriptions on this procedure was a whole lot out there and not to mention the saline induction to replace the amnionic fluid now thats horrible! Just my 2 cents worth. P

justme1972 · Apr 18, 2007

So the procedure is actually called an intact D & X?

kstec, you are correct..it's probably something I don't want to see.

I have never witnessed (but I am sure I will one day when I become a nurse) a fetus that is born entirely too early at 15 weeks, 18 weeks, etc.

Does it really take that long for them to die once they are born before they are considered viable? I would think they would die within just a couple of minutes after the cord is cut because of underdeveloped lungs...I'm not basing this on anything I read...just a belief I have always had.

Oh, and when I meant induction, I was talking about premature induction..as in, before the infant would be viable outside the womb.

Thanks for the wonderful responses on this very sensitive subject.

TazziRN, RN · Apr 18, 2007

It can take longer than a couple of minutes. Years ago a pt came in aborting, and next thing I knew the charge nurse stuck her head through the door and told me to call the house supe and "Hurry!" The fetus was well before viable gestational age, yet it was breathing. It was so young that it was bright red in color and you could see the shadows of organs, but it was breathing. No one knew what to do with it, we finally sent it up to the nursery where it was kept warm until it died several hours later. Even if we had wanted to intervene, it was too small for even the smallest equipment available.

DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN · Apr 18, 2007

From what I understand they have to leave half of the baby inside the mother in order for it not to be considered murder. Because of my own personal beliefs I did some research a while ago and this was what I found. If the whole baby is delivered and then is deprived of medical treatment than it is murder, if only half is able to come out and killed than it is considered a partial birth abortion.

Shoving a pair of scissors into the base the skull and sucking out the brains is inhumane. Letting the child die after birth is not humane either. I don't know what the answer is. Surely our health care system could come up with something more humane.

Editorial Team / Admin · Apr 18, 2007

please, let's not make this into an abortion debate.

TazziRN, RN · Apr 18, 2007

please, let's not make this into an abortion debate.

especially since the op specifically requested this also.

DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN · Apr 18, 2007

Sorry, I was trying not to. I did go back and fix it.