Overturning a grade is it possible?

**NICU Guy, BSN, RN** · Oct 12, 2019

On 10/9/2019 at 6:15 PM, Misscruella said:
This is the same grievance. It is a long story about why I think I should have my grade overturned. my instructor failed me for a couple patient complaints, because I was late twice, I used my cell phone in a wrong area , all in clinical. But why I think I could get my grade overturned is because I was told I had a chance of passing the course around November, after I had been given a warning in the course, but I was told I still could pass so I did not drop out.

Like many of the previous posters have stated, most schools would fail you if you were late twice in clinical. Your program's policy probably says the same thing. It may have not been a team decision on failing you in clinical, it may have been other faculty stating that your instructor must follow policy. Instructors may have some latitude on when they will officially mark a student late. If they are 5 minutes late, they may not consider them late or if 5 students are late due to an accident on the highway and traffic is backed up. Add to the fact that you had two patient complaints and your cell phone use may have left her with no choice but to fail you.

It has been almost a year, it is time to move on with another program or another major.

**CommunityRNBSN, BSN, RN** · Oct 12, 2019

This is a waste of your time. Chalk it up to lessons learned. (Hopefully. Did you learn your lesson from the patient complaints and the phone thing?) Take a break, get a job, re-apply to another school when you’re ready.

**CommunityRNBSN, BSN, RN** · Oct 12, 2019

I just went back and read the original post from February.

I am sure that you can be a great nurse someday! But it does sound like right now you have maturity / professionalism issues. For example, you repeatedly say “nobody told me” or “I didn’t know” about the phone thing. (Using it in lab, then using it in clinical.) Schools are always pretty clear about cell phone rules but, honestly, even if they weren’t, adults just know certain things. Staring at your phone is a terrible, unprofessional look. And we’ve all been there— it’s like “Oh let me just check this text really quick while I’m in between tasks in lab”— but anyone who looks at you sees a disinterested kid staring at a phone. Myself, I’m a total phone addict, but even so, I would never ever pull it out on a patient floor, just because of the way it appears to anyone walking by. At my current job, I sometimes want to look up a med, and my phone would be the easiest and quickest way to do that. But I don’t— I look it up on the computer because that way there’s no confusion about what I am doing.

Same with the “inappropriate conversation” where the CNA was talking about her boyfriend’s vasectomy. Yes, sounds uncomfortable for you, but again, you’re an adult. You can figure out how to navigate that. (Maybe by simply saying “Hold on a sec, let me finish this and then I want to hear the rest out in the hall.”)

Each of these issues seems pretty minor when taken alone. Reading your whole posts, then seeing that your reaction is to imagine you can get a lawyer to force the school to let you back in, just paints a picture of someone who isn’t ready to start a career in healthcare. You sound oblivious and sort of clueless. Do some deep reflection and re-enter a program in a couple of years.

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Oct 12, 2019

I remember the original post, and am not surprised you failed. Your instructor told you there was still a "chance" you could pass, and then every other faculty discussed it and said they would not pass you. Sounds like you had trouble in more than the one course. Based only on what you've told me, I would not pass you. I'm sure there's more, so no, I would not fight the F.

But just for arguments sake, lets say you did a stellar job for the rest of the term, they failed you, you appealed within the proper time, and then THEY stalled until they could say too much time has passed. It's totally their fault, and totally unfair, but still, you will not win this fight. If you had unlimited funds you could get a lawyer and likely get it overturned, but now you have a mark on your back. The next course you take, or the next nursing job you get, word will go through the grapevine, and about 20% of it will be based on truth. You'll have a terrible reputation, they'll watch you and find errors, and believe me, nursing is vindictive enough to have a firing result from a conflict you had in school.

Trust me, be silent, and move on. You may be right, but it doesn't matter. Don't waste your energy.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Oct 13, 2019

I think it is best for you to go to school elsewhere.

However, I think you should engage a lawyer and sue the living daylights out of the school, Instructor, and the Director because they have treated you in a ridiculous way - like taking so long to reply to your original grievance and now saying you are too late. Should you win, your reward will be monetary and an apology from each of these evil beings. Yes, they might be able to retaliate, so consider forgoing a lawsuit. Talk with at least 3 lawyers in your state to get a feel for how a lawsuit might play out.

If you go to school again, you had better toe the line 100000000%. Communicate totally, clearly, and with witnesses present whenever possible. Leave that phone far away from the school and from Clinicals. Have no conversations with anyone about vasectomies or other personal matters in front of patients. Etc. If you have a medical need, make it known right from the start and get it in writing that you have permission from the Director or Dean or whoever to sit down for a few minutes when needed. Perhaps a lawsuit for discriminating against you in this regard is possible against the school and Director and Instructor from your first school.

Don't try to take on an Instructor. You will lose. They hold the power of life and death over your academic success, as you have learned.

Do you still want to be a nurse? You will encounter plenty of similar #^$&**! in the world of work as a nurse. Not that it doesn't happen elsewhere, but there are so many gossips and pot stirrers in the ranks of nurses. At least, that has been my experience.

Good luck.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Oct 13, 2019

16 hours ago, NICU Guy said:
Like many of the previous posters have stated, most schools would fail you if you were late twice in clinical. Your program's policy probably says the same thing. It may have not been a team decision on failing you in clinical, it may have been other faculty stating that your instructor must follow policy. Instructors may have some latitude on when they will officially mark a student late. If they are 5 minutes late, they may not consider them late or if 5 students are late due to an accident on the highway and traffic is backed up. Add to the fact that you had two patient complaints and your cell phone use may have left her with no choice but to fail you.
It has been almost a year, it is time to move on with another program or another major.

I wonder if each state requires a certain amount of Clinical hours. Mine did when I was a student and when I taught. Falsifying a student's attendance? Forget it. Is any student worth the risk? Also, it is not a favor to the student, who is supposed to be preparing for a job, where tardiness will not long be tolerated.

What if someone is late only 5 minutes? How about 6? Or 7? Where do you draw the line?

There have to be rules.

The truth is, just as on a job, we need to arrive a few minutes early and be ready to work the instant the clock strikes 7 or whatever hour our shift starts. No excuses. What if you are the one waiting to be relieved? you need to get home or get to wherever you are going, you have kids to pick up by a certain moment or get them off to school, there's someone else who needs the car to get to work on time, etc.

If we were late to Clinicals or absent, we had a chance to make up the time on one day each semester. However, if we were absent twice, it was an automatic failure. Same with being late more than a total of 3 minutes that semester. An arbitrary figure, but students made totally certain to never be late if at all humanly possible. This was for Lecture, Lab, and Clinical,

Harsh? I thought so at the time, but I no longer do because there is just so much to learn and only a limited amount of time to learn it. And if a student doesn't learn it, the Instructor/school has failed the public. And today's new nurses are very shortchanged when it comes to Clinicals, IMO.

Rnis, BSN, DNP, APRN, NP · Oct 13, 2019

On 10/9/2019 at 5:15 PM, Misscruella said:
This is the same grievance. It is a long story about why I think I should have my grade overturned. my instructor failed me for a couple patient complaints, because I was late twice, I used my cell phone in a wrong area , all in clinical. But why I think I could get my grade overturned is because I was told I had a chance of passing the course around November, after I had been given a warning in the course, but I was told I still could pass so I did not drop out. Then at the end of the semester my instructor told me I would be passing, but apparently it was not up to her. the rest of the faculty told her that they didn’t think I should pass and would not allow me to pass. I think it was unfair to tell me that I had a chance of passing in November when I could have dropped out, could have spent my time elsewhere and applying to other colleges, if despite my efforts I was still going to be failed in the end. I don’t think I could prove that my instructor told me I had a chance of passing mid semester, but at the grievance hearing the director did admit that the instructor came to her and wanted me to pass at the end of the semester so that aligns with her statement to me of telling me I would pass. All students were under the assumption that it was up to the instructor who passed clinical because no one else was overseeing the students in clinical besides our instructor. It was only at the end of all of this that I was made aware that it is a team decision by the faculty who passes clinical. I cannot prove that we weren’t told about this team decision thing, but it is not stated in the nursing handbook that it is a team decision by faculty who passes clinical.
I filed my grievance immediately after the semester ended. I was told by the vice president that it can’t be longer than ten weeks after the end of a class for a grade to be overturned, but she is totally ignoring the fact that it has only been longer than ten weeks because the grievance process took longer than ten weeks! So she stated if she were to turn my grade from a F to a W it would be overriding the schools policy which they cannot do. I think it’s not true I think they can do whatever they want they are the school but I do not know for sure.

It sounds like the instructor that makes the decision with input from the nursing team. Honestly from the brief examples you give......people have been failed for less. Learn from this and become a better studentnurse. I can tell you that that you likely don't have recourse if your appeal failed.

Editorial Team / Admin · Oct 13, 2019

11 hours ago, Kooky Korky said:
What if someone is late only 5 minutes? How about 6? Or 7? Where do you draw the line?

Believe it or not, this is clearly spelled out by my employer. 2 minutes leeway after start of shift is allowed. So if I were to clock in at 0702, I’m good. If I clock in at 0703 I’m late. Expected to be in the OR by 0705.

**CommunityRNBSN, BSN, RN** · Oct 13, 2019

1 hour ago, Rose_Queen said:
Believe it or not, this is clearly spelled out by my employer. 2 minutes leeway after start of shift is allowed. So if I were to clock in at 0702, I’m good. If I clock in at 0703 I’m late. Expected to be in the OR by 0705.

Strict! My work has a 7 minute rule. If I arrive at 8:07 I’m on time; if I arrive at 8:08 I’m late.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Oct 14, 2019

Quote
I think it was unfair to tell me that I had a chance of passing in November when I could have dropped out, could have spent my time elsewhere and applying to other colleges, if despite my efforts I was still going to be failed in the end.

You "have a chance at passing" is not a guarantee. You threw the dice by staying in the course and it did not go your way.

The only thing I see here that seems fishy is saying you are past the deadline for appeal when the delay was apparently on their end. Can you advance this up the chain or has the top of the hierarchy already ruled against you?

Waiting for Retirement · Oct 15, 2019

On 10/9/2019 at 2:34 PM, Misscruella said:
I have been failed in a nursing program. I believe I had a good reason to overturn my grade so I filed a grievance with the school and they would not overturn it. They told me that because it has been over ten weeks since I finished the class they cannot overturn my grade and that is written in their policy. I don’t want to have this F on my transcript. So if I have a good reason to get it overturned I am wondering if I am being given false information? I am thinking about suing the school but i don’t know if a judge could force the school to override their policy. The only reason why ten weeks have passed is because the grievance process took many months at the school so it is not my fault that this much time has passed. I don’t want to waste my time suing the school if it will be pointless and I will not win.

Seems to me the most credible source for this would be an attorney who has had experience in this area. And I imagine it would be a rarity; finding an attorney with experience is likely finding one who has had only one such lawsuit. But these are my guesses.

My (non-legal) opinion? It would be that you are unlikely to prevail. You were not an exemplary student in that you have the issues against you that you mentioned here. Were you academically high-achieving? Not saying that necessarily changes things but if you were an average or marginal student outside of clinicals it doesn't help your case.

When it comes to clinicals there are so many subjective things that can cause a student to fail; in your case there were also tangibles (lateness, problems with complaints, etc).

Lastly, I can offer anecdotal evidence of this kind of thing. When I was in school, every year (and most semesters) someone would fail out and there would be lots of talk about Jane Doe suing the school. Or grieving the process. Or appealing. I did know of exactly ONE student who managed to get reinstated (I don't remember what process she followed). She failed out the following semester or year, can't remember.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Oct 15, 2019

People are so naive with regard to suing someone. You have to have the potential for large damages AND have an excellent chance of winning for an attorney to bother. This does not appear to be that kind of case.